NOCO jump packs, any good?

[eddie49]

This 12v, 40AH, 320 Amp draw, 7 kg Lithium Titanate battery would do the job:

Toshiba Li-ion/LTO 12v, 40Ah Battery, diy ev, solar storage, ebike, powerwall | eBay

Li LTO 12v (13.8v), 40Ah Battery. Toshiba ( Made in Japan). I prefer collection if possible. I can give you the BMS for free, if you buy four or more batteries. The BMS has 2 x 24v side.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[hotponyshoes]

Any idea what sort of current it draws? You could probably run it off a cordless drill battery if you made up an adapter.

Quite a lot,
I have blown 50a fuses easily enough that I run 75a now.
I do have some cordless tool batteries that can deliver 90 odd amps but not had the balls to try one of those yet!

This 12v, 40AH, 320 Amp draw, 7 kg Lithium Titanate battery would do the job:

Toshiba Li-ion/LTO 12v, 40Ah Battery, diy ev, solar storage, ebike, powerwall | eBay

Li LTO 12v (13.8v), 40Ah Battery. Toshiba ( Made in Japan). I prefer collection if possible. I can give you the BMS for free, if you buy four or more batteries. The BMS has 2 x 24v side.

www.ebay.co.uk

That's the sort of thing I have been looking at.
But by the time you have bought a charger, bought a thing to fit a USB socket, built the case etc.. it's not far off the price of a roco etc and one of those will have some warranty and resale value (Providing I don't destroy it!)

 

[sako243]

Has anybody seen any specifications for the a/h rating on these?
Obviously the 4000a whatever's are peak discharge marketing blurb.

The problem you've got with Lithium is they don't like the cold - they're actually really finnicky when they work. The Tesla batteries have a lot of heating and cooling stuff around the battery packs to keep them between roughly 0-30°C.

They haven't replaced lead-acid batteries because well lead-acid just tends to work.

 

[Ubique]

Has anybody seen any specifications for the a/h rating on these?
Obviously the 4000a whatever's are peak discharge marketing blurb.

I'm wondering if it's feasible to use one to replace a regular car battery?

I have got a couple of things that need a decent 12v supply to run from, Winch on a car trailer, log splitter, hog roasting machine, I would also like a hydraulic power pack that could be wheeled around the workshop to power the bench press, tube bender etc.

I have tried fitting batteries to the trailers but even if you fit solar panels and split charge systems the battery does not last as long as I would like.
Probably because it lives outside in all temperatures and does not get used regularly.

I have looked into just getting a li-ion battery and putting it in a case with a charger etc but the jump packs are about the same price as the components would cost anyway.

I'm wondering if you could just swap the clips for an anderson and use it to power stuff rather than just jump start stuff.
My concern is that the 'smart 2.0 protection' won't let the thing power up unless it detects a partially charged battery.
Plus, could you actually get a useable amount of power out of it for any length of time or is it just designed for a short sharp boost?

No, don't do that, its a lithium battery with very specific charge requirements, hence the need to take it off the vehicle as soon as practicable. Its designed for one purpose, starting vehicles with flat or partially discharged batteries, which IMO they do well. There is a 'force on' method for totally discharged batteries.

 

[hotponyshoes]

No, don't do that, its a lithium battery with very specific charge requirements, hence the need to take it off the vehicle as soon as practicable. Its designed for one purpose, starting vehicles with flat or partially discharged batteries, which IMO they do well. There is a 'force on' method for totally discharged batteries.

I should have said "use like a normal car battery " rather than to replace.

I was thinking about keeping/charging it it the workshop but then wondering if I could use it as a mobile power bank for running stuff from.
They are just so much more compact and lighter than dragging a big lead acid around.

 

[Ubique]

I should have said "use like a normal car battery " rather than to replace.

I was thinking about keeping/charging it it the workshop but then wondering if I could use it as a mobile power bank for running stuff from.
They are just so much more compact and lighter than dragging a big lead acid around.

I wouldn't personally, as you mentioned, they're designed for short, high output use, they're not good for longer, lower output. What they have is a relatively low Ah rating but a high CCA compared to AGM etc. In your position, I'd be looking at something like Optima Yellow-top batteries, they're high capacity for the size, can withstand deep discharge and don't need any special charging regime. Oh, they come with a removable carry handle as well you could fit an Anderson connector on short pigtails so you don't have to faff around with bolting and unbolting terminal clamps everytime.

 

[Easywelder]

Have the gb150, has started everything it has been asked to, including 6L tractor engines, very good.
Looking at the genius 10 as a battery top up/conditioner for my z3 having just had To buy a new battery for it.

 

[Joe 90]

My gb40 is pure crap. Noco is too expensive and not as good as other brands. Heres some tests in this youtube video

 

[PhillipM]

The problem you've got with Lithium is they don't like the cold - they're actually really finnicky when they work. The Tesla batteries have a lot of heating and cooling stuff around the battery packs to keep them between roughly 0-30°C.

They haven't replaced lead-acid batteries because well lead-acid just tends to work.

Tbh it's only because the internal resistance goes up when cold. Which, ironically, heats the battery when it's struggling, thereby solving the issue.

Fitted lithiums to a few race cars because of the weight saving (10kg over a normal battery) - and all you do when it's really cold/frozen is let it crank for 10 seconds, pause and then go again and it'll warm up enough to go.

 

[sako243]

Tbh it's only because the internal resistance goes up when cold. Which, ironically, heats the battery when it's struggling, thereby solving the issue.

Fitted lithiums to a few race cars because of the weight saving (10kg over a normal battery) - and all you do when it's really cold/frozen is let it crank for 10 seconds, pause and then go again and it'll warm up enough to go.

May well be the case - my only significant experience has been on either simple coin cell style stuff for battery loggers and they're not great for that - or power tools where the electronics shuts things down pre-emptively sometimes.

 

[armalites]

I've got a GB150 and GB70 and I really rate them. I bought the 150 on Amazon Black Friday deal 2020 I bought the fast charger shortly after. I bought the 70 on the last BF deal mainly because it can also use the fast charger.

The difference from humping a 30kg Optima 5.5 YTS compared to grabbing the the GB150 off the shelf with one hand is amazing, I'm yet to find anything it won't start.

The key with any boost pack is keeping it charged, when I've used mine a couple of time I stick it back on the charger even though it shows that it's full.

 

[armalites]

My gb40 is pure crap. Noco is too expensive and not as good as other brands. Heres some tests in this youtube video

I don't think we can rely on any of the "It will start a 4L diesel" nonsense because it's just like 0-60 times all very subjective and personally I would have never assumed a GB40 would have been suitable for a tractor in sub zero conditions

I can say for sure my GB150 would spun that tractor over like a good un, my lads Massey had some starting issues which took a while to get to the bottom of. turned out the bronze guide bush had come out of the end so it was jamming up. The reason we didn't think it was a starter issue was because if I stuck the GB150 on it she span over perfrectly so it was able to spin a jamming starter motor.

 

[armalites]

Depends I think. The one I've got is not a quick charge, there is a quick charge one but it was a lot more and I only have it for occasional use so the quick charge didn't really matter for me as it retains it's charge.

Its not fast though, several hours at least I think (think I left it overnight). That's I think the 70 version.

If you've got a GB70 the fast charger works on it and it's worth every penny. I think it charges my GB150 from one red LED in about an hour.

 

[PhillipM]

The key with any boost pack is keeping it charged, when I've used mine a couple of time I stick it back on the charger even though it shows that it's full.

ironically thats actually one of the worst things you can do for these - lithium cells start to degrade a bit above about 80% charge or so

 

[MattH]

I’ve got the GB150 and use it to start my Transit tipper. The van sits around for months not being used as I only use it for the scrap run.
Usually it’s twin batts are at 2v when I need to start it.
A 2.4l engine completely cold and the Noco lets it start first turn of the key.

Used the Noco for at least 10 starts before showing even one bar of discharge.

 

[armalites]

ironically thats actually one of the worst things you can do for these - lithium cells start to degrade a bit above about 80% charge or so

I've read different things and I think the real world isn't ideal for battery longevity but my point was more about not putting them away for months and not checking them and then expecting them to do their job at the point where it was essential they work.

Mine gets used a lot and it's trade off between it being a 50-60% capacity with potentially longer cell life but maybe not being able to do the job I need it to do when I need it. Often when mine gets used I may start multiple vehicles one after the other and then again when they get moved back. If it was at 50-60% then potentially it could end out of action for hours(if I didn't have the fast charger)

I've had my GB150 for over a year and I would buy another tomorrow if I needed it but it was much nicer getting for £200 on Amazon BF instead of £300 normally. I've been equally impressed with the GB70.

I fully inderstand for many people the thought of spending £200 on a boost pack sounds outrageous but a commercial level one could be 3-5 times that.

 

[armalites]

I’ve got the GB150 and use it to start my Transit tipper. The van sits around for months not being used as I only use it for the scrap run.
Usually it’s twin batts are at 2v when I need to start it.
A 2.4l engine completely cold and the Noco lets it start first turn of the key.

Used the Noco for at least 10 starts before showing even one bar of discharge.

It's those times where you would have spent 20 mins messing about with jump leads, trying to get another car close enough or carrying a heavy plastic tub around full of acid(a battery) and you are up and running 30 seconds after popping the bonnet make it all worthwhile. Even though I have done it many times it still gives me a grin.

I carry the GB70 around in my daily driver and most likely the first time I get to use it while out and about will be starting someone elses car. Hopefully I get to help someone who is having a bad day.

 

[PhillipM]

I've read different things and I think the real world isn't ideal for battery longevity but my point was more about not putting them away for months and not checking them and then expecting them to do their job at the point where it was essential they work.

I mean that's one of the big points of using lithium cells, the self discharge is low enough you can do exactly that, they only loose a couple of percent a month or less for the better cells. Just store 'em somewhere cool. Heat speeds the drain up.

it's the same for overdischarging them, drop below 10% or so and they'll start to die fast - although most of them have cutoffs to stop you getting the cells too low. Ideally you want to keep them between 20% and 80% for storage, but just charge them to full and put them away is fine - they'll drop that 10-20% top charge after a week or so anyway before settling.
Keep them on a charger so they're always being trickled charged at 100% is the worst thing you can do in terms of wearing out the cells fast, though.

It's not even small differences either it's more like the difference between getting 500-1,000 cycles out of one and getting 5000-10,000 for high drain usage. Even for fairly low drain stuff on lithiums, you can be talking almost doubling the battery life.
Don't trickle them on the charger when they're full unless you absolutely have to.

 

[Joe 90]

I don't think we can rely on any of the "It will start a 4L diesel" nonsense because it's just like 0-60 times all very subjective and personally I would have never assumed a GB40 would have been suitable for a tractor in sub zero conditions

I can say for sure my GB150 would spun that tractor over like a good un, my lads Massey had some starting issues which took a while to get to the bottom of. turned out the bronze guide bush had come out of the end so it was jamming up. The reason we didn't think it was a starter issue was because if I stuck the GB150 on it she span over perfrectly so it was able to spin a jamming starter motor.

I think the point of the video is to show comparing it to other brands of equivalent size, they easily out performed it for less money and the gb40 actually underperformed.
My gb40 wouldn't start a 1.8 diesel with a flat battery. That's unacceptable. Its way overpriced and claims exaggerated to sell it. Mine was a waste of money.
It claims to start a dead battery 20 times were mine wouldn't do it once.

 

[armalites]

I mean that's one of the big points of using lithium cells, the self discharge is low enough you can do exactly that, they only loose a couple of percent a month or less for the better cells. Just store 'em somewhere cool. Heat speeds the drain up.

it's the same for overdischarging them, drop below 10% or so and they'll start to die fast - although most of them have cutoffs to stop you getting the cells too low. Ideally you want to keep them between 20% and 80% for storage, but just charge them to full and put them away is fine - they'll drop that 10-20% top charge after a week or so anyway before settling.
Keep them on a charger so they're always being trickled charged at 100% is the worst thing you can do in terms of wearing out the cells fast, though.

It's not even small differences either it's more like the difference between getting 500-1,000 cycles out of one and getting 5000-10,000 for high drain usage. Even for fairly low drain stuff on lithiums, you can be talking almost doubling the battery life.
Don't trickle them on the charger when they're full unless you absolutely have to.

Useful info.

I don't ever leave them on the charger I unplug them when they charged, my comment probably didn't make that clear. I'd be too scared to be leaving that amount of battery power cooking

Someone posted some pictures of the damage an E-bike did to a house on our company intranet. It was one of his friends, fortunately nobody hurt but a fairly serious fire.