No more diesel or petrol cars after 2040 - cloud cuckoo land?

[RonA]

So the government has spoken, no more diesel or petrol cars to made or sold after 2040.
I wonder if this policy has been fully thought through.
Admittedly air pollution in major cities (the aim of this ban) would improve dramatically but have the full ramifications been considered.
Assuming electricity is to replace these fossil fuels, I see little sign of any other viable replacements at present.
How will it be made & distributed?
It's not that long ago that National grid were talking about the possibility of power cuts during winter time having axed coal fired powere stations from their generation strategies. Additionally they warned there has been no significant investment in the distribution network since the second world war. So getting the power to charge this vast fleet of replacement electric vehicles is going to be a major headache.
The other thing that gets lost in the mix is that "pollution free" electric vehicles are not pollution free. It merely shifts the pollution from street to the area around the power station supplying the electricity.
Another knee jerk reaction?
RonA

MOD NOTE

The whys and wherefores of electric cars has been discussed ad nauseum here

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/is-friday-the-day-the-car-industry-changes.74352/

Can we keep this thread on topic, ie the 2040 deadline for the abolition of new diesel & petrol cars,

 

[WorkshopChris]

If for arguments sake you were to say in the uk at least 40% of cars are parked on the road at night, often in whatever space is available i wounder what the proposed charging options would need to be.

 

[addjunkie]

This isnt a political comment but that is about as well thought out as the recent comments about student debt.

Even politicians should perhaps follow the guidance

"If you have nothing sensible to say, then say nothing"

I see the m1 littered with cars with flat batteries, each with a trailer carrying to long extension leads to plug them in!

 

[rtbcomp]

AFAIK hybrids will still be permitted, so the M1 won't be littered with dead cars.

Pollution is easier to control at power stations and as coal is no longer being burnt the overall pollution will be less, especially when renewables and nuclear are factored in.

It's no coincidence that incentives will be available to householders to generate and store solar power and taxpayer's money is being put into battery research.

 

[addjunkie]

AFAIK hybrids will still be permitted, so the M1 won't be littered with dead cars.
.

No mention of hybrids in the news I read......but that would be sensible!

 

[zx9]

As much a petrol head that I am, I think by 2040 I will be a 75 year old looking back on the old battery powered cars with their huge running, decommissioning and recycling costs. Wondering why the car industry went down a blind ally for thirty years before the fuel cell came to dominance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_RV1

 

[Robotstar5]

I've not looked at the articles yet, but where's the cutoff between cars and commercials as I can't see lorries running for 8 hours on batteries?. Will it create popularity in another near commercial class like what happened with the crew cab pickups a few years ago.

 

[8ob]

Long before they address this issue the government should take a very long look at the whole of the transport system, so much talk of a twenty percent reduction in emissions by whenever and the most simple way would be to reduce travel time. To get into London from Guildford could take two hours or more by car, thats a thirty mile trip. Whether we drive leccy cars or not this issue needs addressing and serious money needs pumping into the road infrastructure. Just on a local level I can think of dozens of ill thought out junctions that with minimal modifications could increase traffic flow and decrease travel time with the associated drop in emissions. Also wonder how they intend to compensate for the lost revenue from fuel duty.

Bob

 

[addjunkie]

Another point.....remove the fuel duty income from government pockets, regadless of political colour, that money will then need to be taken from somewhere else.

 

[Burdekin]

The technology is there with regard to electric vehicles. Just needs to improve duration and speed of recharging and then an electric car will be better in every aspect. Electric cars are especially nice to drive around town, highest torque at 0rpm means they can accelerate quickly, they are quieter so noise pollution will be considerably less and cities won't suffer the air pollution. Electricity can be generated cleanly or much cleaner than a diesel or petrol car. It's nothing to be worried about.

 

[rtbcomp]

Another point.....remove the fuel duty income from government pockets, regadless of political colour, that money will then need to be taken from somewhere else.

It'll still come from the motorist otherwise the roads will become even more overcrowded. The only way I can see that being implemented is by a black box in the car, using ANPR or increasing the tax on electricity. All of which will be controversial and easily thwarted.

 

[RonA]

As much a petrol head that I am, I think by 2040 I will be a 75 year old looking back on the old battery powered cars with their huge running, decommissioning and recycling costs. Wondering why the car industry went down a blind ally for thirty years before the fuel cell came to dominance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_RV1

Not the first time industry has followed a dead end technology. Look how long the electronics industry used valves but had a better solution already in their hands, the cats whisker, forerunner of the transistor.
RonA

 

[rtcosic]

Trolley Buses.
Trams.
Postman Pat's van.
Local Delivery vans.
Local Taxis.
Local urban runabouts.

These all existed pre WW1, so their reintroduction shouldn't be too hard.

The NIMBYs will object to overhead wires in their favourite medieval street, but they work everywhere else in the world. Less obtrusive than noisy Dieseasel buses in these locations.

Long distance coaches and HGVs much more difficult unless they are hybrids or battery plus pantograph on motorways. On one mine I visited the huge haul trucks had auxiliary electric motors and an overhead pantograph system on the steepest inclines. Didn't have regenerative braking on the downhill run though.

Agricultural and construction - no.

Inland waterways, ocean going vessels, commercial aircraft - no. Leisure aircraft - maybe.

Flexible long distance private motoring? Hmm, the EU and the USSR never have liked that idea!

 

[Burdekin]

It'll still come from the motorist otherwise the roads will become even more overcrowded. The only way I can that being implemented is by a black box in the car, using ANPR or increasing the tax on electricity. All of which will be controversial and easily thwarted.

How the government tax it is another issue. I assume this will be tied into the Paris Agreement, so things need to change for future generations.

 

[RonA]

The technology is there with regard to electric vehicles. Just needs to improve duration and speed of recharging and then an electric car will be better in every aspect. Electric cars are especially nice to drive around town, highest torque at 0rpm means they can accelerate quickly, they are quieter so noise pollution will be considerably less and cities won't suffer the air pollution. Electricity can be generated cleanly or much cleaner than a diesel or petrol car. It's nothing to be worried about.

But what happens when your fellow car users all want to do the same thing, how do we charge all the new cars?
RonA

 

[Cobbler]

Can you imagine the queue at the motorway services for the six recharging points. The car park will have to be converted to one massive charging area

 

[Burdekin]

But what happens when your fellow car users all want to do the same thing, how do we charge all the new cars?
RonA

The infrastructure is going in now and has been for quite a few years. Electricity is already fed around the country, gas is fed around the country, petrol stations everywhere, we already know how to do all this.

 

[armalites]

I've not looked at the articles yet, but where's the cutoff between cars and commercials as I can't see lorries running for 8 hours on batteries?. Will it create popularity in another near commercial class like what happened with the crew cab pickups a few years ago.

That is exactly what happened in the USA and I suspect partly why their pickups/SUV have remained so big. They got classified as trucks so they then didn't fall under the normal rules ofr cars.

 

[rtbcomp]

I've added a note to post #1, can we keep on topic and try not to duplicate points made here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/is-friday-the-day-the-car-industry-changes.74352/

 

[Burdekin]

A mate’s sister has a Tesla and sure it’s a little bit more of an inconvenience at the moment when they drive up from Newcastle. They plan a stop at the charging station at Edinburgh I think, not sure how long it takes but it’s not too bad. But this technology is moving along quickly. There are charging points all over Aberdeen already. Car parks will have them, homes will have them, work places will have them etc etc, folk will turn their noses up at the old idea of having to go to a filling station. In the end electric cars will be more convenient. There is already technology to charge the car as you drive along, that may be another option. 2040 is a long way away and the technology will be much improved, but it will happen long before then anyhow. Electric cars will replace petrol and diesel cars in the next 10 years, especially in cities.