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Cret
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Useful tip, thanks. Presume there's a solenoid on it then to control the fuel supply besides the pump itself?
I took the fuel supply pipe off the read of the burner and nothing is coming out of this when running it then switching to heat mode while running. I.e. here:
Not sure if I ran if for that long though so will check again.
I tested for continuity across the two plug leads though and there is none. Testing on resistance, there is about 36k ohms across the terminals, so that seems a bit ominous based on your earlier comments.
So basically that was testing for continuity/resistance with the two probes in here:
Presume the wire with the red paint here is the thermal fuse you're saying about? I will test this next:
As for the pump, this is it - I can wobble it a bit so that doesn't seem healthy, and the bit on the opposite side to the filter rotates fairly easily, which doesn't seem great either.
I think the feed comes into the bottom of the filter, then through the top of the filter into the pump, and out to the burner through the top of the pump. The return I believe comes back to the bit on the side of the pump, then out of the underside of the pump back to the tank. I think it goes that way anyway.
I think I'm going to remove the pump and inspect it all, as the wobblyness of it is not confidence inspiring!
I took the fuel supply pipe off the read of the burner and nothing is coming out of this when running it then switching to heat mode while running. I.e. here:
Not sure if I ran if for that long though so will check again.
I tested for continuity across the two plug leads though and there is none. Testing on resistance, there is about 36k ohms across the terminals, so that seems a bit ominous based on your earlier comments.
So basically that was testing for continuity/resistance with the two probes in here:
Presume the wire with the red paint here is the thermal fuse you're saying about? I will test this next:
As for the pump, this is it - I can wobble it a bit so that doesn't seem healthy, and the bit on the opposite side to the filter rotates fairly easily, which doesn't seem great either.
I think the feed comes into the bottom of the filter, then through the top of the filter into the pump, and out to the burner through the top of the pump. The return I believe comes back to the bit on the side of the pump, then out of the underside of the pump back to the tank. I think it goes that way anyway.
I think I'm going to remove the pump and inspect it all, as the wobblyness of it is not confidence inspiring!
carbon
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Ill check the resistance on a ignition transformer tomorrow when at work, wont be the same make but should have a similar resistance.
Fuel solenoid is free to move / rotate as that pump is used on a few different machines.
Remove the fuel pump and check the drive coupling
Fuel solenoid is free to move / rotate as that pump is used on a few different machines.
Remove the fuel pump and check the drive coupling
the snooper
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the snooper
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have you checked the simple things like the fuel tank float switch to make sure its registering that fuel is in the tank
Cret
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Thanks all
Brightspark - the bit with the pipe my finger is pointing to does appear to be the pump, but the bit off the side of it (opposite side to the filter) seems to be a solenoid to control the flow.
Handy pump markings around the ports:
I removed the pump/solenoid assembly and the shaft turns ok (if a bit tight by hand, but easily with grips - think this just means it has a tight seal in it, which I presume is fine). When I looked inside the fan/drive area though, I found a piece loose inside and once I managed to fish it out, realised it's the plastic coupling. Now I don't know if this was in place correctly and just fell off the pump's shaft as I removed it, or was somehow disconnected inside it, but I think I'd have heard it tumbling round if it was loose. It seems to fit pretty snug on the pump shaft anyway.
Coupling after I stuck it back on. Sure it must have been on though before I removed the pump....
Now I attached a cordless drill to the pump to see if it made anything come out of the feed for the burner but it doesn't, and I assume this is because of the solenoid. I am guessing that when the solenoid is not energised, it just causes the pump to recirculate the fuel back to the tank so it doesn't reach the burner. When I remove the solenoid and use the drill then fuel comes out of that bit no problem, so the mechanics of the pump are fine I believe.
So currently I think there are 2 potential issues, both electrical:
1) Question mark over the coil(s?)/ignition being faulty since there's not the expected continuity, and
2) The solenoid for allowing fuel to the burner appears to not be activating from what I can surmise.
Obviously there's a control for the solenoid doing its thing or not, so I guess I should backtrack to its connections and try to work back from there.
Chris - if you do manage to check a transformer in the same way I've checked this for resistance (or whatever other ways you're meant to?) I'd be really grateful thanks. I bet they're expensive to replace, assuming I can get one if needed, but will look it up from the parts list, thanks Snooper.
Yes it registers the fuel is there btw as I emptied out the horrible old fuel and the fuel light then came on when trying to use it, and it's extinguished again now I've put fresh fuel in. Good suggestion though of course.
There's also this switch/valve at the front of the machine, which moves when the trigger is pulled (the switch moved towards the water tank then moves back when you release the trigger). Seems to move ok anyway with that, but if it's a microswitch then I might check it's working ok (not sure from looking if it's electrical or a valve?).
Brightspark - the bit with the pipe my finger is pointing to does appear to be the pump, but the bit off the side of it (opposite side to the filter) seems to be a solenoid to control the flow.
Handy pump markings around the ports:
I removed the pump/solenoid assembly and the shaft turns ok (if a bit tight by hand, but easily with grips - think this just means it has a tight seal in it, which I presume is fine). When I looked inside the fan/drive area though, I found a piece loose inside and once I managed to fish it out, realised it's the plastic coupling. Now I don't know if this was in place correctly and just fell off the pump's shaft as I removed it, or was somehow disconnected inside it, but I think I'd have heard it tumbling round if it was loose. It seems to fit pretty snug on the pump shaft anyway.
Coupling after I stuck it back on. Sure it must have been on though before I removed the pump....
Now I attached a cordless drill to the pump to see if it made anything come out of the feed for the burner but it doesn't, and I assume this is because of the solenoid. I am guessing that when the solenoid is not energised, it just causes the pump to recirculate the fuel back to the tank so it doesn't reach the burner. When I remove the solenoid and use the drill then fuel comes out of that bit no problem, so the mechanics of the pump are fine I believe.
So currently I think there are 2 potential issues, both electrical:
1) Question mark over the coil(s?)/ignition being faulty since there's not the expected continuity, and
2) The solenoid for allowing fuel to the burner appears to not be activating from what I can surmise.
Obviously there's a control for the solenoid doing its thing or not, so I guess I should backtrack to its connections and try to work back from there.
Chris - if you do manage to check a transformer in the same way I've checked this for resistance (or whatever other ways you're meant to?) I'd be really grateful thanks. I bet they're expensive to replace, assuming I can get one if needed, but will look it up from the parts list, thanks Snooper.
Yes it registers the fuel is there btw as I emptied out the horrible old fuel and the fuel light then came on when trying to use it, and it's extinguished again now I've put fresh fuel in. Good suggestion though of course.
There's also this switch/valve at the front of the machine, which moves when the trigger is pulled (the switch moved towards the water tank then moves back when you release the trigger). Seems to move ok anyway with that, but if it's a microswitch then I might check it's working ok (not sure from looking if it's electrical or a valve?).
the snooper
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i would guess the ignition coils are fine and not the cause, if it were just the coils i would expect fuel to be flowing, the burner is very similar to a space heater the way it works but with a few bits added
Cret
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I'm inclined to agree - it's as if an electrical fault is basically telling the burner at some point not to start, hence it's not letting the fuel out from the pump, which I suppose could also be stopping the coil from energising, although I think Chris said earlier it runs all the time.
That being the case I might try one last thing for this evening, to remove the burner, then run it and watch to see if it is sparking or not. At least then if I see a spark then I know for sure that the coil is ok and it's likely just a fuel delivery issue from the solenoid or suchlike.
That being the case I might try one last thing for this evening, to remove the burner, then run it and watch to see if it is sparking or not. At least then if I see a spark then I know for sure that the coil is ok and it's likely just a fuel delivery issue from the solenoid or suchlike.
the snooper
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there must be a pcb somewhere , as mentioned earlier the heater never fires up instantly always around 5 seconds later and thats where i would be looking
Windy Miller
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Interesting thread! Keep it coming guys!
the snooper
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carbon
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If you have resistance on the ignition coil then it should be ok, I don't really study the value when checking these. Open circuit isnt good.
I haven't worked on one of those for a while but ignition transformers usually run all the time when on the switch is on the 'Hot' position. There is a flow switch mounted on the pump that controls the fuel flow as well. Its just out of shot in your last picture on the left were the red mark is. There is a magnet inside the housing that should be free to move up when water is flowing. Shown on page 28 of the parts break down. Sometime the springs get damaged and jam the magnet down parts 7 & 8. Or the flow switch can fail.
I haven't worked on one of those for a while but ignition transformers usually run all the time when on the switch is on the 'Hot' position. There is a flow switch mounted on the pump that controls the fuel flow as well. Its just out of shot in your last picture on the left were the red mark is. There is a magnet inside the housing that should be free to move up when water is flowing. Shown on page 28 of the parts break down. Sometime the springs get damaged and jam the magnet down parts 7 & 8. Or the flow switch can fail.
the snooper
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same as space heaters
the snooper
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it shows the coil has a contactor K1
Cret
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Ok great, thanks for the additional info, you're a mine of good info!!
May have found an issue actually. The coupler for the pump appears to have wear on the inside of it, i.e. It will spin on the pump shaft unless pushed as far on as it can go
However! From what I can measure, when it's pushed fully home, the lugs on it will only just engage at the drive end (which seems a daft design flaw). So while it might briefly work if I assembly it like this, I can imagine it might quickly move on the pump's shaft and then just spin...
May have found an issue actually. The coupler for the pump appears to have wear on the inside of it, i.e. It will spin on the pump shaft unless pushed as far on as it can go
However! From what I can measure, when it's pushed fully home, the lugs on it will only just engage at the drive end (which seems a daft design flaw). So while it might briefly work if I assembly it like this, I can imagine it might quickly move on the pump's shaft and then just spin...
the snooper
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oh yeah your are right of course never looked far enough down the page
