Myserious welding problem

[mountainbus]

A few days ago I was welding until I ran out of gas (argoshield) and up until that point had been producing decent welds. The next day the gas bottle was replaced without touching or readjusting anything else on the welder and I continued to weld, but now was producing useless porous welds along with crackling and sparks - nothing like the welds from the day before and very similar to welding without the gas turned on. I am indoors so no wind blowing away the gas.

I assumed the problem to be with the gas so checked everything. All airways were clear, regulator appears to work as usual, gas comes out of the torch at a constant rate - in short, everything worked as it always had done. I then suspected the gas to be contaminated, so returned it and got a new bottle from a different batch but the problem persisted. Again everything was checked and found to be working. I also replaced the contact tip and shroud.

I then took the welder to a welding suppliers for their technical bloke to look at and he said as far as he could tell everything was working correctly. Gas comes out of the nozzle, wire feed works perfectly, wire is clean, steel being welded is clean, arc is produced as always and no gas leaks except an almost imperceptible one at the button on the torch. The (fairly disinterested) technician said the problem probably lay with the gas so back I went to the supplier and got a third bottle from yet another batch and still have this problem. The gas supplier says that he has had no other bottles returned and he does about 10 - 20 per week, so after all this I think the problem must lie with the welder or maybe even the regulator, but I have now used up all my limited knowledge and short of buying a new welder, I just dont know what to do next.

Maybe someone on here might be able to point me in the right direction? Any help appreciated as I have my work at a standstill.

 

[TechnicAl]

A few days ago I was welding until I ran out of gas (argoshield) and up until that point had been producing decent welds. The next day the gas bottle was replaced without touching or readjusting anything else on the welder and I continued to weld, but now was producing useless porous welds along with crackling and sparks - nothing like the welds from the day before and very similar to welding without the gas turned on. I am indoors so no wind blowing away the gas.

I assumed the problem to be with the gas so checked everything. All airways were clear, regulator appears to work as usual, gas comes out of the torch at a constant rate - in short, everything worked as it always had done. I then suspected the gas to be contaminated, so returned it and got a new bottle from a different batch but the problem persisted. Again everything was checked and found to be working. I also replaced the contact tip and shroud.

I then took the welder to a welding suppliers for their technical bloke to look at and he said as far as he could tell everything was working correctly. Gas comes out of the nozzle, wire feed works perfectly, wire is clean, steel being welded is clean, arc is produced as always and no gas leaks except an almost imperceptible one at the button on the torch. The (fairly disinterested) technician said the problem probably lay with the gas so back I went to the supplier and got a third bottle from yet another batch and still have this problem. The gas supplier says that he has had no other bottles returned and he does about 10 - 20 per week, so after all this I think the problem must lie with the welder or maybe even the regulator, but I have now used up all my limited knowledge and short of buying a new welder, I just dont know what to do next.

Maybe someone on here might be able to point me in the right direction? Any help appreciated as I have my work at a standstill.

Id start by getting that fixed

Is it the same gas mix? Argoshield is the group name there are different grades within that group, I dont know what they are in Spain but in the UK they are usually called Argoshield Light or Heavy.

I know its obvious but something must have changed so start again and re-set everything.

 

[octo0072000]

gas

are you getting constant supply of gas remove wire feed roller tension hold torch to ear you should get a contant hiss do this for 10/15 seconds also a flowmeter is a good idea
like this one from weldquip

http://www.weldequip.com/flowmeter.htm

or this one for the torch end just to check but that's whot your ear is for

http://www.weldequip.com/gas-flow-tester.htm

 

[mountainbus]

Thanks for the replys. I have gone over the welder every day again and again since Friday and tried all settings, different gas flow and wire feed rates and various combinations, all with exactly the same annoying result. Gas definately flows constantly out of the torch and is not interrupted or obstructed in any way. I have also reset everything countless times, have had the welder apart twice and everything inside looks to be fine with all wires in place and all connections good. I bought it brand new, it always worked well, was never tampered with and received only light use.

The leak from the torch button is only perceptible if I turn the gas flow up to ridiculous levels and it always leaked from there if the gas was turned up to the limit. If I turn the gas down to normal levels it doesnt leak. In any case it only leaks when the torch button is pressed

As for the gas, its the same one I have been using for some time, with a sticker on the bottle stating argon/co2 2.2. I dont know if its light or heavy but its exactly the same one I have been using previously. The supplier is reputable (Carburos Metalicos), being the equivalent of BOC in the UK, and I have now tried three different batches of gas.

All I did initially was just change a gas bottle, removing the regulator from the empty one and putting it on the full one and then turning the tap. The wire spool is the same one as previously, as is the piece of steel I am working on and no settings etc were altered when I changed the bottle. Utterly perplexing !!!

 

[mountainbus]

Here are some pics of welds on 1mm sheet steel. The welds at the top of each picture have been done with the gas turned off. Those at the bottom with gas turned on. Everything was set to the settings it was usually on. Maybe slightly better result with the gas on, but not that much to be honest.

 

[1.8T]

Wonder if they sold you the wrong gas by mistake or the bottle has been wrongly filled, as an example some gasses used in pubs contain not only c02 but also nitorgen, think i would see if you can exhange the bottle for another one

 

[Omniata]

What is your gas flow set at? And how clean is the metal before welding?

What power settings are you using?

 

[Justme]

Looks like insufficient gas flow rate.

Check the swan neck for blockages.

 

[shenion]

Check the flow. I have had it for for 2 seconds then taper off. Was a flaky reg.

 

[Hitch]

Fix the leak you know you have. I shouldn't bother wasting your time until you have that done, regardless.

As the gas flows through, is it not drawing in air from the surroundings..... and being mixed with the shielding gas....?


Do you have a solenoid in the machine?
When you open the cylinder valve, then close it again, does the pressure on the regulator stay up? Or do the needles drop down quickly?

 

[mountainbus]

Thanks again for your replys. Gas seems to be the general concensus and its my feeling too, but -

I am onto my third replacement bottle, all from different batches. The gas suppliers say it is impossible for three different batches of gas to be contaminated and they had no other complaints from other customers and they are adamant it is not the gas.

Gas flow is uninterrupted and continuous and there are no blockages in the gas system at all. I have gone over it with a fine tooth comb so to speak.

I havent got a flow meter, but flow rate is sufficient. In any case I have tried it at all sorts of flow rates and the result is always the same. I varied power levels too, but still get the same porous welds with lots of orange sparks. Metal surfaces are ground down to clean metal before welding.

No solenoid in the machine and the pressure in the regulator stays up when the gas tap is opened and shut again. In fact it seems quite good as it maintains its pressure for a number of hours afterwards. Nevertheless I will look at the leaky trigger component again tomorrow.

Once again, thankyou all for your help. Greatly appreciated.

 

[malcolm]

Definite lack of gas in the photos. Just like no shielding gas at all so unlikely to be contamination or a little leak.

I'd second the idea of getting something like this to check gas flow out of the torch http://www.weldequip.com/gas-flow-tester.htm (There are bound to be some available locally and they are really useful).

 

[dannyp]

chould be a funny reg.

id put the reg on the bottel, take the pipe to the welder off and then turn the gas on. and wind the reg up and down, just feel the outlet with you hand to make sure that it can and is supplying a good flow.


reg on my welder recently packed up, it showed cylpressure and outlet pressure as all good but wouldn't supply hardly any gas, new reg fixed that.

another possible problem is the supply pipe to the torch, the welders liek you describe have a pipe that runs up to the torch in the flex this pipe is usally cheep and nasty hard plastic and if it's excessivly kinked at any point it will deform the pipe and weaken it and will kink in the same stop again veryeasly there after, this can be a right pita with minimigs.

if thats turns out the be th eproblem just bin the hole torch assembly buy a eurotorch and socket and convert your welder to eurotorch

 

[Wozzaaah]

Somebody else had this problem recently and it turned out to be something really simple, I'll try and find the thread.

 

[Paul90]

Think a bit deeper.

You have gas flow, you have checked it several times, but I'm guessing with no arc right ?

Pictures seem to show no gas when welding.

Perhaps the gas stops when the arc strikes ?

 

[clairetoo]

I hope some one can come up with a solution to this one - I am having exactly the same problem !
I was just about to start a thread asking for advice.............

My machine is a Clarke 160T , the gas is Argoshield universal (from a BOC agent) - and the welds look like they were done with a gasless mig by a total beginner

I'm assuming there is no gas solenoid as gas flows without the power on , and I have tried going up and down the power and wire feed settings as well as turning the gas flow up and down - HELP !

 

[Wozzaaah]

Unfortunately I drew a blank, it was a similar problem but was a loose back cap on a tig torch.

 

[mike 109444]

I would suspect some crap/ swarf/ water may have gotten in to the pipework with the 1st new bottle, which is still there even after other new bottles. You said you have checked the pipe work but you could try bypassing the gas solenoid valve incase this is where the crap is traped. Note when you do this and turn on your reg the gas will keep flowing so be ready to try welding then once proven one way or the other turn off reg! and if welding ok replace solenoid. Failing that look for moisture condensing in the pipes.

 

[mountainbus]

I looked yet again at the gas lines, regulator etc and everything appears to be normal. Gas comes out of the nozzle and continues to do so when the arc is struck. Also no solenoid in the machine. I ran compressed air down the gas line on the welder and nothing unusual came out the other end, so seeing as I couldnt find the solution myself and have to finish the job I'm doing, I took the welder to be looked at by someone else. I will post up the diagnosis as soon as I have it. Thanks again to all for your advice.

 

[mountainbus]

Update - The welder was looked at and generally overhauled. Any faults were rectified but these were just a dusty interior and a loose wire, otherwise everything worked as it should. I tried it out at their workshop and it welded perfectly. I got it back home and tried it out again but the problem persisted so now it was either down to a faulty reg or the gas. Back to the workshop where I tried out the welder with my regulator on one of their gas bottles, which again worked perfectly. So, if it works on their gas but not on mine, therefore it must be the gas.

I'm using 12%co2/argon mix and their workshop gas was 15%co2. I didnt expect 3% difference in co2 to make that much difference and am still quite perplexed at the whole thing as I had been using 12% mix gas for the last couple of years with no problem at all. Nevertheless my gas people are adamant it isnt the gas as they had no other complaints and I did try three bottles from different batches, all with the same result. They are now offering to supply me with another gas containig 2% oxygen in bigger, more expensive and less practical bottles, and am also being offered a contract with Linde, the gas supplier used at the workshop that looked at the welder.

To be honest I am now tempted to go with Linde as my gas suppliers havent come up with a solution other than denying its their gas and offering me the other one, whereas I have seen the Linde gas working well with my own eyes. I just keep asking myself 'what if the new gas I am being offered doesent work either?' What solution will they offer me then?. I still have 10 months left on my current suppliers contract and I wont get a refund, which is something else thats bugging me about taking on a new supplier.

The question now is about the 2% oxygen content. Would that make such a difference? The bottles are supplied with their own regulator mechanism too, so would rule out any of my own regulator faults.