My smart and brown

[BrokenBiker]

You got a good haul there !

Did I tell you about the free power scroll saw as well?

Just as I was strapping everything down I got asked 'got any use for this?'

Photo taken from its new location...in my father's woodwork shed

 

[Ton-up]

Its a proper one! I thought you meant a little diy one…..

 

[BrokenBiker]

Its a proper one! I thought you meant a little diy one…..

Oh God no, it's belt driven with bellows and everything...only thing it needed was a new blade

 

[fizzy]

Apologies if already covered but Tony on Lathes.co.uk has this to say about it

Smart & Brown Model A lathe

One important point about early versions of the Model A concerns the sometimes-encountered difficulty of changing speeds - this being done by a 3-position quadrant lever on the front face of the stand connected to a three-speed gearbox mounted inside the cabinet stand. The design of this mechanism is faulty, the shaft connecting the lever to the gearbox being fixed rigidly in position on the lever, but free to move up and down with gearbox motor-support plate. As the latter is adjusted up and down to set the tension of the headstock drive belt, the shaft is deflected out of line making gear section difficult or impossible. The solution? Make sure that the belt is kept as short as possible; this means that any adjustment of the final tension is as small as possible and so the shaft misalignment minimised. As temporary short cut, if gear changing is difficult, before moving the quadrant lever, use the belt tensioning lever to slacken the belt, change the speed and then re-tension the belt.

 

[BrokenBiker]

next up...the literal bucket of lathe tools.

majority of them are relatively poorly ground HSS of varying sizes, everything from 6mm to 20mm and a few 24mm that had to be ground down just to fit in the tool holders! all good quality known brand stuff though, and some large cobalt blanks in there too.

these however, are the carbide tipped tools that i have found, mostly in good useable condition, some need a slight touch up on the grinder first, but all the tips are intact and none seem to have come adrift form the shank (unlike the ones that came with my chinese lathe i might add).

the 5 in the bottom right all seem to have been wire cut and from what i can tell, they are for a groove on the face of a turned part, possibly for some sort of gasket seat or sealing ring. im sure i will find a use for them somewhere. quite a few parting tools which is always handy.

i have been using one of the HSS tools to get used to the lathe, purely because it was already in a tool holder however the more i use it the more i realise its not even close to being ground correctly and i think it has been ground for wood so ive got a quick morning in work tomorrow to swap cranes then back home to put some carbide in the tool holders and i actually have something that needs to be made for the lathe...chuck keys!

i have 4 chuck keys, 1 for the 4 jaw that i dont think is original and is on the verge of being too small, 1 that fits all 3 of the 3 jaws but the handle is so small you cant get any good force behind it, and then 2 larger ones that dont fit anything, which once i get round to them will be advertised on here.

i was going to modify the 2 larger ones to fit the chucks i have, however, wheres the fun in that when i could make a pair from scratch to my own liking. not sure how i want to cut the flats yet, im sure i will figure something out, either with the milling table or the dividing head...suppose i could strap the die grinder to the milling table with a carbide bit of course, not a grinding stone. that said, there is something in the box that looks like it holds a grinding spindle in a tool holder, and i do think i have a 1/4" end mill here...and im just dying to use the dividing head

 

[BrokenBiker]

and although not directly related to the lathe, they are now situated in the lathes tooling cupboard...old boy up the road that i mentioned previously that gave me the driveshaft stopped by earlier and gave me these. the short ones are 16 and 18, the longer ones are 18 and 20mm. 13mm shank. payment for the part i will be turning for him tomorrow.

wasnt going to charge him anything given that he has already said i can keep the excess material and the part he wants making is only 35mm long, so there will be a fair bit of excess. ive never charged him for a job in the past purely becasue he never expects a favour, we usually just end up talking in passing and i offer to help more often than he asks for it.

 

[Agroshield]

not sure how I want to cut the flats yet

For a chuck key, so long as it is not too large in diameter, hold it in the toolholder on the top slide and the milling bit in the chuck. Use a square off the top of the cross slide to index it 90 degrees.

An unconventional method could be to hold it sideways in a four jaw and turn the flats. Then rotate 90 degrees squaring off the face of the chuck.

For both of these, you need to think a little about length control when unclamping and resetting for the next cut.

 

[addjunkie]

For a chuck key, so long as it is not too large in diameter, hold it in the toolholder on the top slide and the milling bit in the chuck. Use a square off the top of the cross slide to index it 90 degrees.

An unconventional method could be to hold it sideways in a four jaw and turn the flats. Then rotate 90 degrees squaring off the face of the chuck.

For both of these, you need to think a little about length control when unclamping and resetting for the next cut.

For a square for a chuck key…..see if a socket extension fits…a file works too as does 4 quick touches with a grinder.

 

[BrokenBiker]

For a square for a chuck key…..see if a socket extension fits…a file works too as does 4 quick touches with a grinder.

Did think of a socket extension first, but the 3 jaw chucks need 8mm AF...the 4 jaw could be done with a 1/4" extension but to be honest, I have material here and it's a fun little project to get me back into turning actual parts and get my head around converting from metric/imperial again.

I have also been given 2x 25mm diameter shafts that make part of a tool rest for a wood lathe than need slimming down to 19.75mm to fit the holder on the lathe, so that's going to be done later on as well

 

[BrokenBiker]

First project done. Nice and simple, turn a section down on each from 25mm to 19.75.

Carbide tipped tool, 0.5mm depth of cut and 0.12 final pass, quick chamfer and done in under 20 mins.

Lathe cuts beautifully, nice finish and very accurate. Got exactly what I dialed in on every cut

 

[BrokenBiker]

well...one thing ive now found is that i am missing the 70 tooth change wheel that is needed for a 1.75mm pitch thread...it is listed in the manual as being needed in place of gear A, it is listed in the manual as being available as part of the full set...however i simply cannot find one.

its a 3" diameter 24DP 70 tooth gear

i do however, have a 70 tooth gear that appears to be off a model M however it is a much more coarse DP/module and isnt even close to fitting, and the bore is different.

i have multiples of other gears and i think every other gear on the list, just not the 70 whcih is needed for 1.75mm pitch and 3.5mm pitch threads...the 1.75mm being a thread i would be likely to cut, and infact do want to cut quite soon

anyone know where i could get one before i resort to having one made?

 

[Agroshield]

MOD 1.5 and 70t is very standard, so any industrial supplier would have one.

Write down how the middle should look and maybe someone would 3D print you one as a stopgap.

Metric EN8 Steel Spur Gears - Drive-Flex Steel Spur Gears in Metric Sizes

simplybearings.co.uk

SS15/70B 1.5 MOD x 70 Tooth Metric Spur Gear - STEEL

SS15/70B 1.5 MOD x 70 Tooth Metric Spur Gear - STEEL, Pitch Module: 1.5 MOD, Pitch Diameter: 105.00mm, Outside Diameter: 108.00mm, Number of Teeth: 70, Overall Width (A): 30.00mm, Tooth Width (B): 17.00mm

www.ashleybearings.co.uk

Steel Spur Gear Mod 1.5 70T, With Hub (SS15/70B)

Steel Spur Gear Mod 1.5 70T, With Hub (SS15/70B) for just £30.23 + VAT. gearsandsprockets.co.uk for your Metric Steel Spur Gears

www.gearsandsprockets.co.uk

Given that everyone has the same part number, they likely source from the same place, possibly HPC Gears.

I wonder why S&B chose metric gears on an otherwise imperial spec. machine, especially as it is quite old.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I wonder why S&B chose metric gears on an otherwise imperial spec. machine, especially as it is quite old.

that is simply how i have measured it, however i realised i made a mistake on the calculator i used, so have now ammended for imperial that better matches the specs. a mix of not zeroing the calipers first and then putting the info into the wrong box

its 3" 24DP gear.

i can get a steel gear from boltons but is 50 quid and needs modifying for bore and keyway (they want an extra 28 quid to do it themselves, and a 2-3 week lead time)

the bore is 3/4" with a 1/8" keyway, gear is .375" thick. those specs were taken from other gears in the set and the details for this 70 tooth were taken from a calculator after verifying the other gears match the specs the calculator spat out for them.

 

[Agroshield]

OK. As it is now an imperial gear, it would be prudent to work out the pressure angle.

What is the smallest gear you have? We can make a pdf of each option (14.5 or 20 degree) and you can overlay the gear to see which matches best.

 

[BrokenBiker]

OK. As it is now an imperial gear, it would be prudent to work out the pressure angle.

What is the smallest gear you have? We can make a pdf of each option (14.5 or 20 degree) and you can overlay the gear to see which matches best.

im not sure off the top of my head, its all locked away for tonight so will check when i get some tomorrow, i think the smallest is a 39 or 39

i can draw the gear up in fusion to check which matches best i suppose

 

[Gregb23]

From reading elsewhere when I was looking for some the Model A uses 24DP, 20PA, 3/8 TO 1/2" wide, with a 3/4 bore and 1/8" keyway

 

[Agroshield]

From reading elsewhere when I was looking for some the Model A uses 24DP, 20PA...

The 20 degree PA is good as that specification is available as a stock gear. The challenge now is to find one at a reasonable price.

Remove .txt of attached to obtain stpZ (compressed .stp) file for a 3DP option.

 

[BrokenBiker]

From reading elsewhere when I was looking for some the Model A uses 24DP, 20PA, 3/8 TO 1/2" wide, with a 3/4 bore and 1/8" keyway

Those specs all match up with every other gears i have, the o ly thing i didn't know ow was PA, thanks

 

[BrokenBiker]

The 20 degree PA is good as that specification is available as a stock gear. The challenge now is to find one at a reasonable price.

Remove .txt of attached to obtain stpZ (compressed .stp) file for a 3DP option.

From what I can see, a new gear that would need drilling/boring for the bore size, shaving down on the thickness and then a keyway added is going to cost around £48...alternatively I could by a bit of 80mm pa6, an involute cutter to mount on the tool post and with my dividing head I could make a gear...but that's going to cost in the region of 46 quid and i then have thebissue of wear against thw steel gears it meshes with...for the extra 2 quid I'm just going to buy the steel gear and machine it to fit. Front what I can see it's only this 70 that is missing and I have a few duplicates of others

 

[Gregb23]

Don't happen to have a duplicate 127T I suppose?