My rusty 'rolla

  1. rickoty Member

    Messages:
    32
    Fife Scotland
    Need a bit of advice/grounding here guys, figured you would be the best to ask:)

    I have a corolla gti that failed its MOT on rust, It's got rusty sills, under the bloody plastic sill covers! And also some rust in the rear inner arches. I'll hopefully get some pics up when I get a chance.

    Sometimes I think I may be over optomistic about these things and think "It's only metal, it can be repaired" and after seeing some of the projects on here I see I'm not alone:D

    From the hardcore restorers amongst you, at what point would you consider a car to be beyond help? I know it depends on the desirability/rarity etc of the car in question but when do you call it quits? Is there anywhere that is irrepairable when compromised?

    Am I right in thinking that inner arches can be patched easily enough? And that an outer sill is just a folded piece of metal anyway?

    Not that I'm at all ready for structural welding yet, 'but I know a man who can':rolleyes: (pity he's on holiday for the next couple of weeks!:D )
     
  2. Lippyp Member

    Messages:
    566
    Lancashire UK
    I don't think anything is really beyond repair, its just at some point it becomes a replica rather than a restoration! I've seen some horrendously badly rusted motors restored over the years. It does depend on your skill as a welder/fabricator, the availability of decent replacement panels etc etc As to whether you ever get your money back thats a different issue.

    My current dream is to prise this (see pic below) from its current owner in France (it's a 1930's either ford or chevrolet cut down into a pickup) and turn it into a "rat" or resto rod with a V8 etc. Do I have the skills? probably not yet.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. malcolm

    malcolm Hej!

    Messages:
    8,827
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    It's a shame, but financially it rarely makes sense to restore a car. But if you get into the mindset that you are doing it for fun then the criteria for what needs doing will change a bit.

    For me I look at the condition of the rest of the car (interior, mechanicals), and whether any panelwork welding is going to look ugly when it's done.

    On the other hand here's a pic of my MGA when I bought it completely lacking interior or mechanicals.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Hello!


    I've got a question : I often see a lot of cars for sale on eBay U.K. that failed the M.O.T.
    In France, we've got the CT ( contrôle technique ) each 2 years, except if your car is considered as an "oldtimer" - that's the exact word used in Germany and Belgium, I think the right word in the U.K. is " MOT exempted ".

    Anyway, if a car fails its CT, the owner can still drive it and sell it for 2 months from the date of the CT.
    These 2 months are actually allowed to let the owner do the repairs, then the car has to go back to the control center and the failing points are checked again. This is named "contre-visite".

    How is it in the U.K. ? If a car fails its MOT, is there such a period of time too ?


    Cheers :D
    Gabriel
     
  5. La soudeuse

    La soudeuse Interested observer

    Messages:
    18
    MOT failure

    Bonjour Gabriel! :)
    We have no such leeway in the UK. After the car is three years old the car has to be tested every year. To be on the safe side most people get their cars tested up to a month before the date for the MOT. If the car passes then the date is taken from the date of the last certificate so you don't lose out. If it fails you have the time until the MOT is due to get it mended and still drive it. If it still hasn't passed at the due date than you are not allowed to drive it except to a prearranged appointment for its MOT. Without an MOT it is not possible to tax the car and the insurance will be invalid.

    If you buy a car on eBay without an MOT you have to fetch it home on a trailer.

    I do not know anything about MOT exempt vehicles - I thought every car had to be tested every year although the older cars have different tests and criteria. Maybe someone else can help with this one. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  6. Lippyp Member

    Messages:
    566
    Lancashire UK
    There are a few categories of vehicles that are MoT exempt but it's not on age as far as I know. It includes things like some agricultural vehicles, recovery vehicles, milk floats and some others including some military vehicles. An MoT station has the right to declare a car unsafe to drive in which case it has to be trailered or recovered from the testing garage. My 1967 Chevrolet pickup still has a test every year and the only thing thats different is that it is not subject to any emissions testing just a visual check for excess smoke. If a car fails it's MoT the tester is under no obligation to offer a free retest although many did if you repaired the fault within usually two weeks. With the recent introduction of computerised tests in the UK held on a central database most garages have stopped this and charge the full fee for a retest. Thats £44 at the full price each time. This is why I've decided I need to replace the rusty body mounts on my Trooper as they're almost certainly a fail and I don't want to waste this money.
     
  7. bump Electricity is great!

    Messages:
    1,287
    Location:
    Leicestershire / Northamptonshire boarder
    The only time i would consider a regular runner beyound repair is if the chassis is twisted. For restoration purposes it becomes a whole new kettle of fish, depending on the rareity (sp) of the car, the avaliability of parts. In short i look at the bigger picture than just the bodywork.

    As your're not doing a restoration, rather a repair, I would say it makes sense to do it.

    Cheers

    Bump
     
  8. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Hi Rickoty
    In terms of beyond economical repair, it depends upon the complete picture. In my opinion, if a rust heap costs £500 to put through an MOT for a year, it's cheap motoring really. When you consider the depreciation on a new car at the garage, pick a number and add some noughts.
    My partners car is a 15 year old Escort which we purchased for £600, the last MOT was £250 for various bits which is close to 50% of the value however, the car is still worth £600 and it cost £250 for a year.
    My BMW has probably depreciated £3000 in the same time period, 25,000 miles doesn't help but that's what pays the mortgage.
    Back to the question - how much does it cost annually and compare it to how much a replacement car would cost, including depreciation.
    Trust this makes sense
    Regards

    Rob
     
  9. rickoty Member

    Messages:
    32
    Fife Scotland
    By I'm just annoyed 'cos the car was meant to be a quick sort it and go, I have another car that I'm basically completely rebuilding. It's just stretching my time and money even further! I was a bit put off by the way the MOT tester kept telling me the car was a lost cause, he even laughed at me for putting new discs and pads on! The other ones were destroyed, and I had to get it down there...

    How much work is involved in putting new sills on? Can they just be patched or do you have to get replacements?
     
  10. migmag

    migmag Member

    Messages:
    700
    North east
    Only you can decide wether you like the car enough to spend the hours and pounds on it.

    And I have to say if a tester laughed at me about my car my first action would be to pull it off the ramps and take it else ware and wether he got a fat lip would depend on his atitude afterwords.

    I say if you like the car enough to graft on it then do it,
    If not way it in the price of light iron is rite up at the minute I got 100 quid for an old Mk1 mondao estate last week.
     
  11. malcolm

    malcolm Hej!

    Messages:
    8,827
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    The work involved in changing sills varies from car to car, and how much else is rusty can be a big factor. I've been swapping a set of Aston Martin sills for the last 20 months! On the other hand I managed arches and sills on a Maestro in about 10 days.

    A modern car should just have an inner and outer section so you should be able to see where it's rusty. Personally I'd patch if the rust is localised and the sill looks like it should still have most of it's strength, or replace if the rust goes more than 10% along the sill length.

    New panels should be cheap and will be much less hassle than making panels up from sheet.

    I know where you are with time pressures - I've had no time to do anything for myself this year. Although a bit of a break coming up hopefully.
     
  12. Lippyp Member

    Messages:
    566
    Lancashire UK
    Sills can be patched, well they have been on my Trooper and that went through an MoT, as long as the patches are seam welded you'll be OK. Sills can be complicated or simple to replace, very much depends on the car. Some are just straght bits of bent steel, others amy be in several parts. The sills I'm replacing on my chevy are complex pressings that go up the door pillar each end.
     
  13. marknotgeorge

    marknotgeorge Doing sums for a living since 2009.

    Messages:
    474
    Derby, UK
    That Corodda's obviously stuffed. Buy a new one & keep me in a job!;) :D
     
  14. rickoty Member

    Messages:
    32
    Fife Scotland
    Unless you're a scrappy or a friendly mate you've been misled! I'm too poor to buy a new and enough of an optomist to think it can be done sheaply:p

    But if it's your profession what wouuld be the costs involved? I'm hoping for the patching the sills route.
     
  15. La soudeuse

    La soudeuse Interested observer

    Messages:
    18
    Making cars

    Hi marknotgeorge - what sort of cars do you make and which bit do you do? Do you have one of whatever you make yourself?
     
  16. marknotgeorge

    marknotgeorge Doing sums for a living since 2009.

    Messages:
    474
    Derby, UK
    I build Corolla hatchbacks. More specifically, bits and pieces in the instrument panel, or (depending on the process I'm doing) the mounting brackets on the radio, the mirror control bezel and putting the stalks on the steering column.

    And yes, I drive one which I get through the member car scheme. A 1.4 T-Spirit (top of the range). Mrs MnG wouldn't let me have satnav :(

    rickoty - Costs involved? 12 - 15 grand off the top of my head... :D
     
  17. malcolm

    malcolm Hej!

    Messages:
    8,827
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    Good thing you aren't the one who does the rust proofing in the sills. :D
     
  18. marknotgeorge

    marknotgeorge Doing sums for a living since 2009.

    Messages:
    474
    Derby, UK
    I think they were still built in Japan back then. UK Corrolla production started in '97-98. And back then they were the fugly 5 door fastback with the froggy eyes. Now we build 3 and (mostly) 5 doors which look much better.
     
  19. Eurotorch Eurotorch

    Messages:
    47
    uk
    Always hated doing sills, I used to patch them only to find another hole a few months later, how bad is the damage, has it gone to the inner section and inner sills? I would bin it personally but if you want the practice and have the money and time, then thats fine.
    I would be pulling the carpet and having a really good look, could be little suprises every where
     
  20. Lippyp Member

    Messages:
    566
    Lancashire UK
    I agree, the sills on my Trooper were patched because its an old workhorse thats never going to be pretty no matter what you do to it. I'm in the middle of replacing the sills on my chevy and I uncovered all sorts of other problems when I pulled the old ones off. I need to replace part of the inner sill/backing plate, repair the edge of the floor and also replace the bottom of the door pillar thats hidden inside the sill. If you intend keeping the car for some time or you want it to be pretty then replace, if its just a cheap runaround for as long as it lasts then plate em.
     
Advertisements