Milling, lathing .. or what?

[Kram]

RE Warco, my view is that they were originally part of the "chinesium" influx but that they have continued to scrutinise and improve their products over the years and are now a reliable supplier (with the benefits of purchasing in the uk) and I am intending to buy a Warco lathe when my pension comes in!

Warco are 100% chinesium, no benefit to buying from them, support is not there. New machines are all filled with cast iron grinding dirt that takes an age to clean out - you think your paying a premium to avoid that. The boxes are not opened after leaving china. I suggest to collect in person and inspect before loading, and reject if its full of dirt.

Only worth considering if very limited in space, if not find an old Harrison or similar.

 

[addjunkie]

Warco are 100% chinesium, no benefit to buying from them, support is not there. New machines are all filled with cast iron grinding dirt that takes an age to clean out - you think your paying a premium to avoid that. The boxes are not opened after leaving china. I suggest to collect in person and inspect before loading, and reject if its full of dirt.

Only worth considering if very limited in space, if not find an old Harrison or similar.

The older stuff is not Chinese…some is eastern block others are Tiawan I think.

But M300s are now cast in china. Youd struggle to buy anything new that doesn't have Chinese parts.

I would recommend going to their place, or a model engineering exhibition, if you are interested, always best to see stuff in the flesh. And at exhibitions they often bundle extras.

 

[snotters64]

Decking blocks and skimming heads requires a very well trammed head, or the finish will be dished. same with doing it on a lathe - most cut a slight dish when facing. I prefer my surface grinder for that job.

Not true I’m afraid

 

[jim noonan]

Thanks kram is that experience of warco shared across many purchases / people please? As I had started to conclude that the number of positive reviews on their machines were increasing and replacing some of the dubious earlier ones, maybe I have been to selective in my sampling? Thanks too to addjunkie bur when you say "go to their place " do you mean to warco specifically or do you mean just generally to visit the vendor pls? I didn't know you could visit warco. If so I might go. Any suggestions as to best model engineering exhibitions please, never thought of that. Sorry to OP if I seemed to steal this thread....not intended.

Ta

Jim

 

[Other Daniel]

Thanks kram is that experience of warco shared across many purchases / people please? As I had started to conclude that the number of positive reviews on their machines were increasing and replacing some of the dubious earlier ones, maybe I have been to selective in my sampling? Thanks too to addjunkie bur when you say "go to their place " do you mean to warco specifically or do you mean just generally to visit the vendor pls? I didn't know you could visit warco. If so I might go. Any suggestions as to best model engineering exhibitions please, never thought of that. Sorry to OP if I seemed to steal this thread....not intended.

Ta

Jim

I bought a Warco lathe, a GH1322, about 5 years ago.
I'm absolutely pleased with it, have had no problems and the
purchasing experience was simple and pleasant. I would buy
from them again.
This also included them shipping it to France.

 

[Kram]

Its a great machine to be honest, fits my available space perfectly. The problem is more with Warco, once they have your cash they dont want to know, thats why I can not recommend them, along with being deceived about the "ready to use" condition. Try a different importer or get a used one where all the issues are sorted along with the used discount..

No massive problems with the mechanicals, at 7 years its done a fair amount without wear and still accurate. Problems..
The variable speed dc motor was in my opinion, unsuitable for lathe use. Its unsealed, sucks in swarf, runs far too hot, burnt brushes, eventually taking out the speed control. Zero torque below max speed.

The electrical wiring unsafe. Several crimps pull off with no effort and wrongly crimped, with strands folded back under insulation. Quite possible fire /shock risk if you dont have an RCD. Thats more a china QC issue as nothing is done on them over here.

From there website, which as I remember is largely unchanged..

• Our team thoroughly test every single lathe before despatch, and each WM 240 will come with an individual accuracy test report. Bare metal surfaces are protected by a thin layer of grease which is easily removed with a cloth. No further preparation is required - once it arrives via our no extra charge delivery service, simply plug in and enjoy your new lathe.

Complete lie. The test report is done in China, the boxes are not opened in the UK. The " thin layer of grease" is a thick mix of grinding dirt from manufacture and took some effort to get clean. All reviews I've seen have said the same, but are you going to return it just for that? I kept it but not happy as Id asked about this in person before buying and they lied, so any trust was gone.
Same dirt is in the headstock bearings - cant be easily removed without replacing. The bearings somehow survived a few years like that, probably best left alone, but its a long way from being as described. Using it straight out of the crate would have worn the ways quickly I think.

The positive is you know its new, not a return, as any owner would/should clean that all off before use.

• We've always prided ourselves on our customer service, so rest assured when buying from Warco, you're in safe hands. And we have an extremely large range of spares available should you ever need them - as well as just about any lathe tool you could ever need for this machine.

They wouldnt send me a missing circlip for the reverse threading gear. I'd spent enough and its likely a 5p part.
Something was going wrong with speed control after it blew a fuse. They wanted £100 for a new one, that was within the first year. As it still worked I left it.
When I wanted new bearings, they couldnt get them and couldnt find out what it needed.

Then theres the foul shade of sea sick green/yellow...

 

[Pete.]

Have you ever seen a head that repeatedly burns up HGs? I have. 6 thou out-of-flat. Not very much.

Old fashioned engines with thick composite gaskets are a lot more tolerant of out-of-flat heads than modern alloy heads with MLS gaskets. There is VERY little give or room for tolerance with MLS gaskets.

It's a lot cheaper to pay an extra £40 for a head skim than it is to have to pull a head for a 2nd time after a premature failure.

6 thou is a mile in terms of ally head flatness. I used to go top-speed racing along with a quite famous 1970's drag racer who owned a very fast ZX12R. Kept blowing gaskets until he had the head checked, 7 thou dip in the narrow strip between two combustion chambers on the head. Had it worked over and it never blew a gasket again.

Another guy who built a turbo bike same time I built mine blew his Hayabusa head gasket. He took it to a company who lapped it flat on a lapping machine. That had an incredibly fine flat finish on it and I recall people commenting that he'd removed the 'bite' out of the surface. That engine is still going strong.

Personally I think that the roughness specification is in place to stop MLS gaskets moving IF there is any out of flat in the ally cylinder or head, but if measures have been taken to remedy it properly then the Ra figure is inconsequential so long as the flatness is at least better than the viton coating on the gasket.

 

[Johnnybravo]

My experience with Warco of late,is they sell cheap Chinese Tat at a premium price. Company I subcontracted to 4 years ago bought a small lathe ,new,from Warco .After two years the bed was more worn than the 20 year old plus Boxford it had been bought to replace. It was used in exactly the same manner as the Boxford, definetly wouldn’t call it production work,used more in a fitting role,trimming bushes to length,etc…A keen DIYer would have put more hours on it in the same timeframe.

 

[Munkul]

6 thou is a mile in terms of ally head flatness. I used to go top-speed racing along with a quite famous 1970's drag racer who owned a very fast ZX12R. Kept blowing gaskets until he had the head checked, 7 thou dip in the narrow strip between two combustion chambers on the head. Had it worked over and it never blew a gasket again.

Another guy who built a turbo bike same time I built mine blew his Hayabusa head gasket. He took it to a company who lapped it flat on a lapping machine. That had an incredibly fine flat finish on it and I recall people commenting that he'd removed the 'bite' out of the surface. That engine is still going strong.

Personally I think that the roughness specification is in place to stop MLS gaskets moving IF there is any out of flat in the ally cylinder or head, but if measures have been taken to remedy it properly then the Ra figure is inconsequential so long as the flatness is at least better than the viton coating on the gasket.

Yeah, 6 thou is the figure at which it is already blowing gaskets Usually we would take 2-3 thou off a "good" head if skimming for peace of mind. ie. taking a cut deep enough to cover the whole surface.

I agree with you about the roughness spec, but as is the case with most engineering applications, it's usually a balance and if you hit for the middle, you won't go far wrong.
I suppose my experience has all been with soft alloy heads with recessed valve seats - it would be different if it was a head with raised seats, think you'd have to grind it or something then.

 

[addjunkie]

Its a great machine to be honest, fits my available space perfectly. The problem is more with Warco, once they have your cash they dont want to know, thats why I can not recommend them, along with being deceived about the "ready to use" condition. Try a different importer or get a used one where all the issues are sorted along with the used discount..

No massive problems with the mechanicals, at 7 years its done a fair amount without wear and still accurate. Problems..
The variable speed dc motor was in my opinion, unsuitable for lathe use. Its unsealed, sucks in swarf, runs far too hot, burnt brushes, eventually taking out the speed control. Zero torque below max speed.

The electrical wiring unsafe. Several crimps pull off with no effort and wrongly crimped, with strands folded back under insulation. Quite possible fire /shock risk if you dont have an RCD. Thats more a china QC issue as nothing is done on them over here.

From there website, which as I remember is largely unchanged..

Complete lie. The test report is done in China, the boxes are not opened in the UK. The " thin layer of grease" is a thick mix of grinding dirt from manufacture and took some effort to get clean. All reviews I've seen have said the same, but are you going to return it just for that? I kept it but not happy as Id asked about this in person before buying and they lied, so any trust was gone.
Same dirt is in the headstock bearings - cant be easily removed without replacing. The bearings somehow survived a few years like that, probably best left alone, but its a long way from being as described. Using it straight out of the crate would have worn the ways quickly I think.

The positive is you know its new, not a return, as any owner would/should clean that all off before use.


They wouldnt send me a missing circlip for the reverse threading gear. I'd spent enough and its likely a 5p part.
Something was going wrong with speed control after it blew a fuse. They wanted £100 for a new one, that was within the first year. As it still worked I left it.
When I wanted new bearings, they couldnt get them and couldnt find out what it needed.

Then theres the foul shade of sea sick green/yellow...

I used to own an old warco lathe was really good, before the china reveloution. I then bought a mill, new, visited their show room to see it first. It did what it-said on the tin, after a good clean, works and did get a spare handle for it after a mishap, but that was maybe 10 years ago.
Itll be different folk running it now as the boss was mid 60s say 15 years ago.

Dealing with chester was like the del boy of the import machine tools

 

[Munkul]

Dealing with chester was like the del boy of the import machine tools

I tried dealing with Chester Machine tools once, never again. Ever.