The most horrendous looking place in Keighley will do a 4cyl head skim for 30-40 quid. I know how to get there, but not its address or details. Done while you wait and make small torque, sorry, talk.
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Munkul
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I don't have to prove anything, you just have to google it. Cometic, cosworth etc. Will give a Ra value you'll never hit with a surface grinder.
I mis understood your post before though, i thought you were saying you didn't see the point in skimming a head at all, sorry, my mistake.
this I agree with - I never flycut an alu head that has steel inserts, no way. You need to grind them with a wet stone.
Edit to add my thoughts on Ra - some roughness is to be desired, to aid “sticking” of the gasket - specifically the fire ring, which could be subject to early onset, or even severe detonation. Yes, it’s not a fix, but why engineer in a weak spot?
jim noonan
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I'm really interested in your question. I have a very small, very old lathe which I am looking to replace. I have spent hours and hours researching the relative benefits of different lathes and, like you have become intrigued by the possibility of a mill. I am not an expert machinist but I think I can make one very definite assertion as follows: If you do not have a specific purpose in the sense of making a particular product or undertaking a specific set of machining tasks it is highly unlikely that you will find a mill more beneficial than a lathe. It's a real cliche but the lathe is vastly more versatile than the mill. With creativity and imagination a lathe will produce flat surfaces but a mill is less able to produce round items. Take a look at blondihacks on youtube about essential metalworking workshop equipment. She gives a really well informed and experience based reasoning for what you might want in a small workshop. Also, please look at lathes.uk for the most thorough information on any or all machines and an amazingly detailed account of their specs and history. RE Warco, my view is that they were originally part of the "chinesium" influx but that they have continued to scrutinise and improve their products over the years and are now a reliable supplier (with the benefits of purchasing in the uk) and I am intending to buy a Warco lathe when my pension comes in! If I can get one with a milling head i will probably do so but their are issues with stiffness on combined lathes / mills. There was an immaculate chester lathe / mill on lathes uk a few months ago for a ridiculously low price.
A good lathe, unless you need a mill for specific purpose is almost inevitably going to be more versatile than a mill. You know the Cliche "the lathe is the only instrument that can replicate itself". It's rubbish actually, in the sense that the lathe cannot cast its bed or ways etc. but it does reflect its massive versatility. Just my thoughts
Good luck
jim
Kram
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Warco are 100% chinesium, no benefit to buying from them, support is not there. New machines are all filled with cast iron grinding dirt that takes an age to clean out - you think your paying a premium to avoid that. The boxes are not opened after leaving china. I suggest to collect in person and inspect before loading, and reject if its full of dirt.
Only worth considering if very limited in space, if not find an old Harrison or similar.
addjunkie
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The older stuff is not Chinese…some is eastern block others are Tiawan I think.
But M300s are now cast in china. Youd struggle to buy anything new that doesn't have Chinese parts.
I would recommend going to their place, or a model engineering exhibition, if you are interested, always best to see stuff in the flesh. And at exhibitions they often bundle extras.
snotters64
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Not true I’m afraid
jim noonan
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Thanks kram is that experience of warco shared across many purchases / people please? As I had started to conclude that the number of positive reviews on their machines were increasing and replacing some of the dubious earlier ones, maybe I have been to selective in my sampling? Thanks too to addjunkie bur when you say "go to their place " do you mean to warco specifically or do you mean just generally to visit the vendor pls? I didn't know you could visit warco. If so I might go. Any suggestions as to best model engineering exhibitions please, never thought of that. Sorry to OP if I seemed to steal this thread....not intended.
Ta
Jim
Ta
Jim
Other Daniel
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I bought a Warco lathe, a GH1322, about 5 years ago.
I'm absolutely pleased with it, have had no problems and the
purchasing experience was simple and pleasant. I would buy
from them again.
This also included them shipping it to France.
not done it yet
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I’ve always had good service from Warco. Not bought any machines from them - I prefer good quality old English iron, to be honest.
You will always hear more from those that think they got a raw deal - it’s human nature.
Really? Try cutting a flat surface with a poorly trammed head. It is why it is important to actually tram a vertical milling head. Or are you suggesting that lathes don’t tend to cut a slight dish? Agreed facing should be flat, but convex (even by a tiny amount) would result in rocking when placed on a surface plate. Most hobby machines are not perfect. A horizontal slab mill might be another option, but a single pass on a car engine might need rather more power than the average hobby horizontal mill. Tiny glow plug engines and steam engines are a whole different ball game.
You will always hear more from those that think they got a raw deal - it’s human nature.
Really? Try cutting a flat surface with a poorly trammed head. It is why it is important to actually tram a vertical milling head. Or are you suggesting that lathes don’t tend to cut a slight dish? Agreed facing should be flat, but convex (even by a tiny amount) would result in rocking when placed on a surface plate. Most hobby machines are not perfect. A horizontal slab mill might be another option, but a single pass on a car engine might need rather more power than the average hobby horizontal mill. Tiny glow plug engines and steam engines are a whole different ball game.
Kram
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Its a great machine to be honest, fits my available space perfectly. The problem is more with Warco, once they have your cash they dont want to know, thats why I can not recommend them, along with being deceived about the "ready to use" condition. Try a different importer or get a used one where all the issues are sorted along with the used discount..
No massive problems with the mechanicals, at 7 years its done a fair amount without wear and still accurate. Problems..
The variable speed dc motor was in my opinion, unsuitable for lathe use. Its unsealed, sucks in swarf, runs far too hot, burnt brushes, eventually taking out the speed control. Zero torque below max speed.
The electrical wiring unsafe. Several crimps pull off with no effort and wrongly crimped, with strands folded back under insulation. Quite possible fire /shock risk if you dont have an RCD. Thats more a china QC issue as nothing is done on them over here.
From there website, which as I remember is largely unchanged..
Same dirt is in the headstock bearings - cant be easily removed without replacing. The bearings somehow survived a few years like that, probably best left alone, but its a long way from being as described. Using it straight out of the crate would have worn the ways quickly I think.
The positive is you know its new, not a return, as any owner would/should clean that all off before use.
Something was going wrong with speed control after it blew a fuse. They wanted £100 for a new one, that was within the first year. As it still worked I left it.
When I wanted new bearings, they couldnt get them and couldnt find out what it needed.
Then theres the foul shade of sea sick green/yellow...
No massive problems with the mechanicals, at 7 years its done a fair amount without wear and still accurate. Problems..
The variable speed dc motor was in my opinion, unsuitable for lathe use. Its unsealed, sucks in swarf, runs far too hot, burnt brushes, eventually taking out the speed control. Zero torque below max speed.
The electrical wiring unsafe. Several crimps pull off with no effort and wrongly crimped, with strands folded back under insulation. Quite possible fire /shock risk if you dont have an RCD. Thats more a china QC issue as nothing is done on them over here.
From there website, which as I remember is largely unchanged..
Complete lie. The test report is done in China, the boxes are not opened in the UK. The " thin layer of grease" is a thick mix of grinding dirt from manufacture and took some effort to get clean. All reviews I've seen have said the same, but are you going to return it just for that? I kept it but not happy as Id asked about this in person before buying and they lied, so any trust was gone.
Same dirt is in the headstock bearings - cant be easily removed without replacing. The bearings somehow survived a few years like that, probably best left alone, but its a long way from being as described. Using it straight out of the crate would have worn the ways quickly I think.
The positive is you know its new, not a return, as any owner would/should clean that all off before use.
They wouldnt send me a missing circlip for the reverse threading gear. I'd spent enough and its likely a 5p part.
Something was going wrong with speed control after it blew a fuse. They wanted £100 for a new one, that was within the first year. As it still worked I left it.
When I wanted new bearings, they couldnt get them and couldnt find out what it needed.
Then theres the foul shade of sea sick green/yellow...
Pete.
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6 thou is a mile in terms of ally head flatness. I used to go top-speed racing along with a quite famous 1970's drag racer who owned a very fast ZX12R. Kept blowing gaskets until he had the head checked, 7 thou dip in the narrow strip between two combustion chambers on the head. Had it worked over and it never blew a gasket again.
Another guy who built a turbo bike same time I built mine blew his Hayabusa head gasket. He took it to a company who lapped it flat on a lapping machine. That had an incredibly fine flat finish on it and I recall people commenting that he'd removed the 'bite' out of the surface. That engine is still going strong.
Personally I think that the roughness specification is in place to stop MLS gaskets moving IF there is any out of flat in the ally cylinder or head, but if measures have been taken to remedy it properly then the Ra figure is inconsequential so long as the flatness is at least better than the viton coating on the gasket.
Johnnybravo
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My experience with Warco of late,is they sell cheap Chinese Tat at a premium price. Company I subcontracted to 4 years ago bought a small lathe ,new,from Warco .After two years the bed was more worn than the 20 year old plus Boxford it had been bought to replace. It was used in exactly the same manner as the Boxford, definetly wouldn’t call it production work,used more in a fitting role,trimming bushes to length,etc…A keen DIYer would have put more hours on it in the same timeframe.
Munkul
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Yeah, 6 thou is the figure at which it is already blowing gaskets
Usually we would take 2-3 thou off a "good" head if skimming for peace of mind. ie. taking a cut deep enough to cover the whole surface.I agree with you about the roughness spec, but as is the case with most engineering applications, it's usually a balance and if you hit for the middle, you won't go far wrong.
I suppose my experience has all been with soft alloy heads with recessed valve seats - it would be different if it was a head with raised seats, think you'd have to grind it or something then.
addjunkie
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I used to own an old warco lathe was really good, before the china reveloution. I then bought a mill, new, visited their show room to see it first. It did what it-said on the tin, after a good clean, works and did get a spare handle for it after a mishap, but that was maybe 10 years ago.
Itll be different folk running it now as the boss was mid 60s say 15 years ago.
Dealing with chester was like the del boy of the import machine tools
Munkul
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I tried dealing with Chester Machine tools once, never again. Ever.
