Micor Performance on 115v Supply

  1. WorkshopChris

    WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

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    Time to dig the clamp meter out and do a retest.
     
  2. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    With modern welding equipment on poor site supplies rarely will you see it actually trip the supply. In fact I don’t think that’s ever happened to me before when using any of them on site. What’s more common nowadays is the set has voltage input tolerances and if you feed below those tolerances the set will throw up an error and tell you it’s not happy with the supply or less advanced sets will just shut down. The problem on site isn’t that the welder is too powerful for the incoming supply, it’s the supply isn’t good enough as far as voltage drops are concerned especially over long leads to give the welder it’s ability to run the bigger rods. The supply isn’t fussed but the welder shuts down. In answer to your question yes I have ran it at full power a couple times on demos from a 16amp supply but not with 44m of cable as I didn’t have a 3rd lead to try it but on 26m I did it. There will come a point when we put one too many cables on it and it will chuck up an error. Saying sorry guys but the voltage drop through these cables is too much. Most 110v welders actually limit the output on 110 and ours does too. This limit is based on 110v 16amp supply.
     
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  3. Pete.

    Pete. Member

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    Thanks for the comprehensive reply Richard. So the basic answer is yes so long as you're sensible with the cables i.e. don't expect it to run off 30m of 1.5mm lighting wire. I think it needed clarifying because I can't be the only one who knows full well that those 5kva boxes will usually happily deliver 30amps from the 16a outlet.

    The point about site supplies is well made as there's a huge variation in the quality of power you get from them. The heavy-draw gear we use soon shows up a bad supply. Many times I've found a huge difference from ground floor to top floor of a high-rise all fed from the same distribution board just because the temp supply people have skimped on the CSA of the cable not allowing for the 100m tall building. So many times I've complained about voltage drop and the sparky has put his meter on the outlet to 'prove' it's putting out 115v. I say 'hold on a minute whilst I start my drill' and suddenly he's showing 85v when the load comes on. Must be the same with welders.
     
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  4. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Exactly
    Although saying that one of those micorstick demos I did was done using 1.5mm2 cables being fed from a 3.3kva box
    Certainly Not designed for it but again it was quite happy. I suppose it’s where it separates itself from the competition because it’s much more tolerant with the drops through cables.
    The only way that bit of kit is tripping a 110v 16amp breaker out is if it actually manages to draw well over 16amps. On the sites I’ve worked on over the years it will be lucky if it get close to that. Micor inverter will take care of that mind as it gives you a chunk more bang for your amp.
     
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  5. bwservices Member

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    i still don't know where we stand?
    if its running 140 amps on a 16a 110v supply,then in theory its system should be efficient enough to run 280 amps on a 230v 16a supply.which to my mind is impossible.
    I know this welder doesn't go up to 280,before anyone says
     
  6. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Mate. I don’t know the in’s and outs electrical theory wise of what it should and shouldn’t do from it’s performance on 110v. If you say it’s impossible then it’s obviously impossible. All I can do is truthfully write what I did with it. Next time I’m Infront of one I’ll max it out on 110 and stick a clamp on round one of the lines and let you know the draw. That’s all I can do.
     
  7. brightspark

    brightspark Member

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    on doing that on a long lead can you also check the voltage at the transformer and also at the end of the lead when the welder is running to see what the drop is and if the welder still performs ok . what is the lowest voltage it will still run at without showing fault :)
     
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  8. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Not sure mate
    @matt1978 might know. I think around 90v rings a bell but not 100% sure.
     
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  9. bwservices Member

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    I'm not trying to pick holes in a story to start an argument Richard.you promoted it.
    I would if I were you,confirm with someone who knows the ins and outs of electrical theory that it runs at less than 16 amps on a 110 supply when welding at 140 amps
     
  10. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    Why?
    I’ve already told you what supplies and cables I’ve run it off. I don’t need to do anything.
    Like I said I’ll put a clamp on one of the incoming lines next time I’m infront of it.
     
  11. matt1978

    matt1978 www.lorch.eu

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    The mains input tolerance is around 90-95v-300v (The 300v is required for a fully charged battery)

    I wouldn’t worry to much about the input fuse amperage rating on 115v supply. It’s more about the kVA size of the Transformer. The video we shot which we were able to burn a 4.0mm Electrode and Tig weld at 180 amps was supplied with a 5kVA Transformer but I know Richard also ran some trials at a customer on a smaller kVA Transformer, regarding the official fuse rating for 115v I think that the inrush amperage fuse is about 20 amps but again, I know it’s been run successfully on less, eg 16a.

    The machine has a sub menu which you can tell it which Fuse rating it’s working on and it will limit its output based on which fuse rating you’ve told it that it’s supplied too. This is more for the mining spec requirements of Australia where they can only draw something like 11 amps.

    I know in general terms you only get out what you put into a machine, but the difference is that with MMA welding on a Micor inverter you have access to more welding voltage (and its this voltage that keeps the rod burning) for the same current (Parabolic Curve/ X amount of welding volts for x amount of amps). Usually 140 amps on a conventional inverter wouldn’t entertain a 4.0mm Low Hydrogen. Our Micor 200 can burn a 5mm CEL and the Micor 350 (X Series) can burn a 8.0mm CEL. It’s around 1.5x the performance for rod burning compared to traditionally designed inverters.

    Massive voltage reserves which are able to be generated because the machine can change/adjust the frequency which it switches at depending on input mains, extension cables, welding process etc etc, usually conventional inverters are designed to switch at a given fixed frequency
     
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  12. SpaceWelder

    SpaceWelder Member

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    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for the interesting info
    Lorch welders are very tempting.
    Just few questions
    1- What is the difference between
    Lorch MicorTig 200 Dc Basic plus model and the same ControlPro ? What settings are not available in the basic model?

    2- In the video I guess the amarage was shown the maximum available one, but Im more curious about actual working amps. So what is the duty cycle of 110V for 100% and 60% duty cycle?

    3 - I have seen many welding machines are available to buy with interest free finance, is the any similar options in regard to Lorch welders ?

    Cheers :)
     
  13. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    As far as functionality is concerned there is very little between the two.
    The ControlPro has the large Oled display which is really nice because it clearly shows in real meaningful terms what your changing. The BasicPlus displays things via small 7 segment display window. You can still change the same things it’s just not as intuitive to navigate.
    The ControlPro has the ability to save jobs but other than this the two panels are as capable as one another.

    The duty cycle at 60% is 160amps. It’s capable of 180amps on dc tig 140amps MMA on 110v supply and Duty cycles are stated at a 40°c ambient temp.

    Finance is offered by quite a few distributors nowadays
    It’s nothing to do with Lorch itself it’s something some distributors offer on their equipment sales to encourage people to spend and spread the cost.
     
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  14. SpaceWelder

    SpaceWelder Member

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    Thanks a lot Richard!

    And what about 100% duty cycle, is there any range of Amps that is in theory can work without a need to cool down?

    Regarding to Finance I acctually ment any dealers , not the manufacturer.
     
  15. SpaceWelder

    SpaceWelder Member

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    Location:
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    Just got my MicroTig 200 ControlPro, have not tested it yet but had a play with it with Richard who gave me a brief demonstration of the welder (Thanks mate ).
    Nice piece of kit, very well made, sturdy and very compact. I asked it to be fit with 32a 110 plug as I think I'll be using it only from 32a socket and 5kva transformer. Hopefully will use it a lot ;)
     
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  16. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    I’m a little bit jealous as I don’t own one myself and it’s an absolute joy to demonstrate.
    I hope you enjoy it mate. You know where I am if you have any questions
    Don’t forget to register it if it hasn’t already been done.
     
  17. SpaceWelder

    SpaceWelder Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks Richard. Yes I will register for the warranty. I think it hasnt been done by the supplier. cheers :)
     
  18. SpaceWelder

    SpaceWelder Member

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    22
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    Got some difficulties to connect the Tig torch :) might be funny but I cannot find where should I plug in the 3.5mm headphone type jack connector ?? Also the main torch connector does not fit deep enough to the negative connector to secure it by turning to the side. There is a bolt inside the negative connector and it looks like it doesnt let the torch connector to fit in ( may be the bolt need to be unscrewed ?..). Also that bolt inside could block gas flow to the torch as torch cable does not have any seperate hose for gas inlet, but it has a hollow space in the connector what looks like a gas inlet.. In the Manual there is shown only another type of torch with connection to the middle socket with seperate gas inlet, but nothing about that type which ive got.
     
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  19. Gazello Member

    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Seems they went back to 13mm powerconnector 5 Pole Tuchel and 2.7mm quick connect

    Yours fit the previous versions
     
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  20. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    18,351
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    That torch is not correct mate.
    The supplier has made a mistake as that’s a gas through dinse torch.
    DO NOT remove the bolt inside the dinse socket get on to your supplier and ask them for the correct torch.
     
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