Massey Ferguson 20E

[CornishPete]

I know there's a few vintage tractor enthusiasts on here, I'm hoping you can help me with any information about the mf20E I've just bought. I know the mf industrial tractors were typically red series tractors with bigger axles and running gear but it's proving hard to find any difinitive list. This one has the Perkins ad3.152 diesel engine but I've been told it's a 135 front end with a 565 rear end, 135 front end with a 265 rear end and also that it's basically a yellow mf250 with a straight front axle! It has oil immersed brakes and a pick up hitch and I've tried comparing pictures on Google but they all look the same to me! Looking at the specs on tractordata many appear to be exactly the same tractor with 3 different engine options. I've tried looking on agri parts supplier websites to see the fitment list for parts and most things appear to fit multiple models so there's obviously a lot of crossover but not many listed as fitting the mf20E! Any help much appreciated!

 

[Munkul]

The industrials were a mixed bunch, very spec dependant We have an older MF 40 with a very similar spec to that - straight solid front axle, wet brake rear from a 165, and the ad3.152 engine from a 35x/135.

If you go at it from the point of "the engine is a 135" you won't go far wrong. They were all very similar.
Not sure about the rear on that... it's probably a 250 I'd say, since it's same generation. It looks like it has a remote spool valve as well? And all the standard back-end kit on a "red" tractor...

What size wheels are on it?

 

[m_c]

I don't think the basic axle changed much between the x65 rear axles.
From what I can just about make out in the photos, the front axle looks quite beefy for it to be standard axle of the period.

 

[frank horton]

dont over think it....
pretty good tractors....
look at agrilinetractorsspares, Bromsgrove.....
I used them a lot......good parts list....the guy's there know the job, got me outta the poo a few times.....
Most Massey's were a parts bin special...
the backend is bombproof.....

 

[CornishPete]

Looks pretty bomb proof! I was expecting something like a 35/135 when I went to look but It's quite a bit more substantial! Wondered if it might be a little under powered but I'm not going to be doing much work with it and most of our implements would be a bit much even if it had twice as much power! But that's just a good excuse to get some period attachments anyway! In reality it'll probably only ever have a link box and trailer. Everything works on it at the moment, and on light duties, hopefully it won't need spares for a while. Obviously it would just be good to know what I'm asking for. I'm picking it up this week so I'll check wheel sizes and also s/n and log book so finding part nos might be easier. Thanks for the info on agriline, looks a good company to know! Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Munkul]

Ben Sergeant (mf tractor spares) is a good source of parts as well. I use both Agriline and Ben Sergeant.

The standard red 135 had a load of power for its chassis, absolutely superb power-to-weight ratio. IMO the beefed up back axle should have been fitted from factory on them all The swept-back front axle was pretty weedy too, although I suppose it did the job.
We had, at one point, a 35, 135, 65, 165, two 185s, 390, and a 390T.

Best ones of the bunch were the 135, the 65, ONE of the 185s, and the 390T... we only replaced our 135 scraper tractor because every moving part on it was worn to failure, and we got chance of a cheap MF40 to replace it. (which in itself has been a bit of trouble unfortunately)

 

[addjunkie]

Paint it red, itll be worth anout 3 grand more!

 

[arther dailey]

excellent kit..look at my avatar ! never touched apart from oil and filters although I do have a pair of wings on the todoit list

 

[CornishPete]

Picked it up this weekend!

 

[CornishPete]

The loader is an mf 80, anyone have any idea what it's capacity is? It looks a bit less substantial than yours arther Dailey?

 

[Welderpaul]

Another vote for Agriline. I've bought a fair few bits recently and they have all been good. Engine components have all been bang on OEM sizes.

It looks fairly straight - What is your plan for it Pete?

 

[CornishPete]

It is fairly straight as is and everything works except the lights. The cab and tinwork is solid with only surface rust and the oil immersed brakes are fantastic compared to anything else of similar age we've ever had! I'm not planning on a restoration, just a bit of a tidy up. I just want to get everything working as it should with no leaks. Would be handy if it could lift a bulk bag of sand or a silage bale but I'm not sure. Was initially on the lookout for one like arther Dailey's as there was a period where MF made industrial versions that had heavier duty axles and a backhoe but still had PTO and 3 point linkages so it could be used as an agri tractor or as a JCB type. They seem to have much heavier duty loaders though which is one of the main reasons I wanted one, along with the linkage/PTO, not so much the backhoe as for most things other than digging a long straight trench in a field they're not that useful. This is a 1985 and by this time MF had started making dedicated backhoe excavators with no PTO/3 point linkage so as far as I can gather this is basically an agri tractor with bigger axles. But then this came up locally for reasonable money so I got it!

 

[Munkul]

We have a MF80 on our 185, it works very well can pick up 2 fertilizer bags (1200kg) and your limit is back-end weight, really. It'll be slow to lift compared to anything modern, but that's life.

Looks clean enough in the areas that matter, from what we can see. It's had an alternator conversion (or maybe that generation already had them?) and a new starter motor - decent.

 

[CornishPete]

1200kg! That's more than I was expecting and good to hear! It had a donor engine fitted last year and a new clutch fitted at the same time. The engine casing is actually green if you look close enough. It came out of a forklift apparently. Wonder if they had a different alternator? Or again if it's been modified later. I know the ad3.152 engine was used in many many applications over many years, and looking at some tractor specs there is a variety of different hp figures given for tractors using the ad3.152 engine, not sure how this is achieved, I assumed it's the same basic engine regardless of the application and generally the later the engine then slightly more hp. Never had one with a loader before so need to do a bit of research on spool valves and hydraulic systems in general. The loader has a few new hoses but would like to change the rest that aren't and maybe look at the pump too. I guess there's an auxiliary hydraulic pump or does it use the same one that drives the 3 point linkage? The engine definitely changes note when lifting the loader.

 

[Munkul]

I guess there's an auxiliary hydraulic pump or does it use the same one that drives the 3 point linkage? The engine definitely changes note when lifting the loader.

On these tractors I don't think they had the tandem pump system, so probably just the ferguson linkage pump. It should have a 3 port valve just in front of the seat, between your legs, possibly to the right? If so, it diverts oil between the linkage, and the auxilliary circuits... although with that being a later tractor, it maybe has a different system with an always-live auxilliary circuit... if it does, it probably does have a tandem pump... you can link them together to get more flow.

It has a totally separate system for the power steering, you see the little kidney shaped pump/reservoir below the alternator.

 

[CornishPete]

Not sure what a 3 port valve looks like!! Don't remember anything just in front of the seat though. The loader controls are behind the seat on the opposite side to the lift arm controls. (Which I also have yet to work out what lever does what!) There's just two levers with what looks like two forward hoses and two rear facing hoses branching off. I assumed you can use either one or the other, ie loader or tipping trailer but not both or both will work at the same time? My knowledge is limited to that of your typical farmer so apologies if I'm asking basic questions!

 

[m_c]

Industrial may rely on just an auxiliary pump.

3 port/linkage selector valve would be bolted directly on top of the lift cover, around the left front corner of the seat, but when they started on floored cabs, MF added a linkage and remote lever.
This what they looked like on the 100 series -

If they're using an aux. pump, then if you trace the pipes from the backend to the spool block, IIRC they'll likely come out via the PTO lever side plate. If they're using the main lift pump, they'll be taken off the top of the lift cover assembly where the above valve would bolt on, and where the original trailer connector that's flopping around is likely connected.


It looks like they've just branched off the spools for the rear connection points.
If you want to use the rear hydraulics with the loader still connected, you'd either need to add a double diverter valve, so you can easily switch between the loader and the rear connectors, or see if you can add a third splice.

 

[CornishPete]

Yes, that all makes sense. The PTO lever is just below the loader levers. I didn't even realise the trailer hose flopping about! Have no idea where the lever for it is. I need to have a good look and clean up the cab and familiarise myself with all the controls! Thanks everyone for your help. The mig welding forum never disappoints with the depth of collective knowledge!!

 

[m_c]

If the trailer connector goes directly on to the lift cover via a bango bolt, then it's simply connected in the lift ram circuit. To get full pressure/tip a trailer, you move the position control lever past arms fully raised to constant pumping.

 

[arther dailey]

The loader is an mf 80, anyone have any idea what it's capacity is? It looks a bit less substantial than yours arther Dailey?

no idea , sorry, the one I got was a special order for the raf and was used for loading bombs apparantly, they made either 8 or 12 I was told, the only trouble with mine is in reality the loader is possibly to heavy for the tractor ,but saying that I need a bigger ballast weight for the back , but wouldnt part with it , fabulous tool and always using it .