octo0072000
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thought it was the now the actual weight of the trailer not the plated weight according to other posts on here
- Thread starter undertaker
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thought it was the now the actual weight of the trailer not the plated weight according to other posts on here
not if you passed after 19/1/2013
KemppiFrog
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Else where, it was stated that Indespension refused to rent a trailer that had a gross weight higher than the towing vehical's limit, even if the renter had no intention of loading it up to limit. i.e. small car on a 2 ton trailer. Hope they have changed that Policy.
I passed my test in Jan '65, so not a hassle and have towed biggish loads ever since ( I used to build them as a job). But seems that to get a French license, I might have to take the towing add on and, you have to take a medical to extend it if passed 70, as a local classic car racer found out. While I lived in Portugal medicals where compulsory at 10 year intavals until 60 then 5 years. After 70,it was every year. Can't argue with that. Here, your license is forever and makes one very careful about the reactions of older drivers.
Back in the days.. I retrieved a boat from Sardinia, for friends of my mothers. Built the trailer, bought an Austin Champ for £45 and got my bro to drive it to St Tropez, where we sailed the boat to. Boat+trailer weighed around 3.5 ton. Champ around 1.5. The potential for snaking was very real, as we found out... All two lanes and the hard shoulder on the A10 when one of us let the speed creep over the handling limit. While the modern regs do seem a bit over the top, what we were allowed to get away with was lunatic. For the fuel concious, it did 9 MPG on the way back..Petrol was a bit cheaper then..
I passed my test in Jan '65, so not a hassle and have towed biggish loads ever since ( I used to build them as a job). But seems that to get a French license, I might have to take the towing add on and, you have to take a medical to extend it if passed 70, as a local classic car racer found out. While I lived in Portugal medicals where compulsory at 10 year intavals until 60 then 5 years. After 70,it was every year. Can't argue with that. Here, your license is forever and makes one very careful about the reactions of older drivers.
Back in the days.. I retrieved a boat from Sardinia, for friends of my mothers. Built the trailer, bought an Austin Champ for £45 and got my bro to drive it to St Tropez, where we sailed the boat to. Boat+trailer weighed around 3.5 ton. Champ around 1.5. The potential for snaking was very real, as we found out... All two lanes and the hard shoulder on the A10 when one of us let the speed creep over the handling limit. While the modern regs do seem a bit over the top, what we were allowed to get away with was lunatic. For the fuel concious, it did 9 MPG on the way back..Petrol was a bit cheaper then..
Thats not my understanding of the regs.
That seems clear to me to say that a cat B licence holder can drive a cat B vehicle (that can be up to 3500kg) can tow a 750kg trailer resulting in a GTW of 4250kg OR a combination that results in a GTW of no more than 3500kg if the trailer weighs more than 750kg.
A post 2013 licence can use real weights. Between 2013 & 1997 its plated weights & pre 97 its real weights.
Mad or what?
steviec_lj
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No.. ALL licenses for category B entitlement use the 19/01/13 update.
3.5t is your maximum! Unless you passed before 1997 in which case you have "grandfather rights", or you have the B+E entitlement.
That's the law, take it or leave it. The .gov website misses out the critical wording 'MAM'.
3.5t is your maximum! Unless you passed before 1997 in which case you have "grandfather rights", or you have the B+E entitlement.
That's the law, take it or leave it. The .gov website misses out the critical wording 'MAM'.
justme, it does not say that you can drive a vehicle up to 3.500kgs mam and tow a trailor with 750kgs mam on top of your 3500kgs mam aswell from 19/1/2013.
but the entitlement from 1997 does state that.
There`s another vital point thats missing from all this is that 750kgs mam trailors do not have to have brakes,
anything over that and the trailor needs a braking system,
but the entitlement from 1997 does state that.
There`s another vital point thats missing from all this is that 750kgs mam trailors do not have to have brakes,
anything over that and the trailor needs a braking system,
dan.taylor.1
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Your right about the brakes dunk, but that's always been the law, shame so many ignore it! I've seen some 10'x5' builders twin axle jobbies with no brakes at all.
Dan
Dan
The thing is Dan towing a trailor with no brakes, ie, upto the750kgs mam, is very different to towing a trailor with brakes over the 750kgs, this becomes very obvious when the roads are damp or wet when braking fairly hard. with the 750kgs mam the towing vehicle is the trailors brakes and you will feel the trailor trying to push you, where as with a braked trailor you will feel the trailor grab and if the wheels lock then thats when all goes out of line, this is what used to happen with the artics way back before all this abs braking came in, althou it wont cure jack knifing but helps one hell of a lot.
I passed my hgv1 more years ago than i like to remember and i must say this newish requirement for the +E is a good thing it will make the person taking the test more aware of road hazards and road space you need when turning, reversing and overtaking, besides how to load and secure the load on the trailor correctly, i dread to think what would of happened if i had driven a loaded artic the way i see some driving with trailors dragging behind them with little more than string to hold the load on.
I will add one more thing, i personally think this grand father rights is just a joke, why should some one who has passed his B test have to take a E test to tow, when some one from prior to 1997 can just connect up a heavy trailor for the first time and away they go, surely its got to be one rule for all not for some
I passed my hgv1 more years ago than i like to remember and i must say this newish requirement for the +E is a good thing it will make the person taking the test more aware of road hazards and road space you need when turning, reversing and overtaking, besides how to load and secure the load on the trailor correctly, i dread to think what would of happened if i had driven a loaded artic the way i see some driving with trailors dragging behind them with little more than string to hold the load on.
I will add one more thing, i personally think this grand father rights is just a joke, why should some one who has passed his B test have to take a E test to tow, when some one from prior to 1997 can just connect up a heavy trailor for the first time and away they go, surely its got to be one rule for all not for some
Bill Edwards
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Because somehow the 60+ year old grandpas, some of whom aren't capable of handling their mobility scooters safely and with any awareness of their surroundings, must be safe to stick their big caravan on their car and head across the country - because they're old.
1, The regulations are not retrospective. So only those passing after 19/01/13 come under that change.
2, The lack of the MAM on the wording does not affect the GTW allowed. If the intent was to limit you to 3500kg GTW then they would only need one condition not the two they use.
If you add an OR to the conditions it make much more sense.
From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:
- small trailers weighing no more than 750kg
- OR
- a trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)
https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules/y/car-or-light-vehicle/no/licence-issued-after-19-Jan-2013
That is very clear that you can tow a 750kg trailer with any weight of cat B vehicle or a combination that does not exceed 3500kg.
Look at this from page 4 on this PDF https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/333088/INF30_020514.pdf
steviec_lj
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2006/126/EC is the document you need.
I'd also suggest reading the attached letter.
Your understanding of the ruling is wrong.
Anyone passing on, after or before 19/01/13 is subject to the same rulings, UNLESS, you obtained your license prior to 1997.
I'd also suggest reading the attached letter.
Your understanding of the ruling is wrong.
Anyone passing on, after or before 19/01/13 is subject to the same rulings, UNLESS, you obtained your license prior to 1997.
That letter is about the removal of the restriction of the trailers MAM not being more than the unladen weight of the tow vehicle providing the GTW is under 3500kg.
Wow finding the actual 2006/126 legislation was hard.
If your going to use a regulation to back up your point you need to read that regulation. In this case the regulation you quote backs up my & DVSA's view (the view expressed in their official online documents not a personal letter to an MP that has no weight of the law) of the law. It must be remembered that in the end it will be a court that actually decides what a law actually means (and they do get it wildly wrong on occasions).
Quote from 2006/126/EC
My bold & under lining.
A cat B vehicle that can weigh 3500kg can be COMBINED with a 750kg trailer. You only need further testing if the trailer MAM is more than 750kg & the combined weight is over 3500kg GTW.
Wow finding the actual 2006/126 legislation was hard.
If your going to use a regulation to back up your point you need to read that regulation. In this case the regulation you quote backs up my & DVSA's view (the view expressed in their official online documents not a personal letter to an MP that has no weight of the law) of the law. It must be remembered that in the end it will be a court that actually decides what a law actually means (and they do get it wildly wrong on occasions).
Quote from 2006/126/EC
My bold & under lining.
A cat B vehicle that can weigh 3500kg can be COMBINED with a 750kg trailer. You only need further testing if the trailer MAM is more than 750kg & the combined weight is over 3500kg GTW.
steviec_lj
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The above is true, yes, and having just read the legislation myself, I will pull up the following...
The complete document adopted by Member States is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...rw7LS5QX1pPnT!1323026245?uri=CELEX:32006L0126
And with that, I shall be unsubscribing from the topic.
Should you require any further clarification on the EU Legislation, please contact your MP and ask them to investigate further.
So yes, what you are saying in regards to towing a trailer of 750kg is correct, however, it continues;
So, after all of that, yes, you can hook up a 750kg trailer, giving you a MAM of 4250kg, BUT, you require the B+E entitlement. Its quite clear in the above quote. That is the legislation, take it or leave it...
The complete document adopted by Member States is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...rw7LS5QX1pPnT!1323026245?uri=CELEX:32006L0126
And with that, I shall be unsubscribing from the topic.
Should you require any further clarification on the EU Legislation, please contact your MP and ask them to investigate further.
dan.taylor.1
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duck, I know exactly the feeling you mean, I have my trailer license and have been driving tractors and trailers for ages (probably not as long as you've had your hgv1 though!) and I honestly think a trailer without brakes is a daft idea, even better if its got ABS (air/hydraulic only obviously!).
I also think if you're planning on driving with a trailer that you do the test, it covers more how to be aware of the trailer and adjust your driving to suit. Most of what they taught me I knew, and some stuff I thought would have been covered wasn't (loading correctly for instance!), but it's well worth doing.
Dan
I also think if you're planning on driving with a trailer that you do the test, it covers more how to be aware of the trailer and adjust your driving to suit. Most of what they taught me I knew, and some stuff I thought would have been covered wasn't (loading correctly for instance!), but it's well worth doing.
Dan
I did read that & I also quoted it, I guess you did not click on expand on my quote.
It does not say you need B+E for a cat B vehicle & a 750kg trailer.
It says you need it IF the trailer is over 750kg.
Its a conditional statement.
All parts of the conditions must be met.
If the trailer is over 750kg & the GTW is over 3500kg then you need B+E.
If the trailer is <=750kg & the GTW is <=4250kg you only need B
Big difference.
Why would they put it in there about 750kg trailers needing B+E when they can just say you need B+E if the GTW is over 3500kg?
It does not say you need B+E for a cat B vehicle & a 750kg trailer.
It says you need it IF the trailer is over 750kg.
Its a conditional statement.
All parts of the conditions must be met.
If the trailer is over 750kg & the GTW is over 3500kg then you need B+E.
If the trailer is <=750kg & the GTW is <=4250kg you only need B
Big difference.
Why would they put it in there about 750kg trailers needing B+E when they can just say you need B+E if the GTW is over 3500kg?
1, I agree. A trailer with brakes is soo much nicer to tow. With a well set up breaking system & a sensibly sized load / tow vehicle designed for towing ABS should not be needed with a cat B+E. However C1+E when the trailer can be much heavier than the tow vehicle with you.
2, As a trainer I am obviously with you on that. We cover loading & its effects in theory as we have to use a pre loaded trailer with a fixed load for all lessons.
We have people that have the pre 97 B+E but have never used it take training. We also have cat B licence holders that are still only going to tow within the Cat B entitlement & not take the test have training. Roughly half of all trainees do not take the test either due to already having the B+E or not needing it for the combination they intend to tow.
Its also worth noting that most +E test failures are for the basic driving skills (AKA the L test standard) & not for the towing specific part of the test.
Top tip.
If you are on a budget take some training with a standard driving instructor (£18-26 per hour) to get you basic driving sorted then take as few hours as possible with a trailer trainer (£35-50 per hour). Or enroll on an advanced driving course as some are free.
justme, i see you are a trainer, can you tell me more about the part of
"we cover loading & its effects in theory as we have to use a pre loaded trailor with a fixed load for all lessons"
does it cover securing the load to the trailor & what to use and the correct way to use it & are they box trailors or flat backs
"we cover loading & its effects in theory as we have to use a pre loaded trailor with a fixed load for all lessons"
does it cover securing the load to the trailor & what to use and the correct way to use it & are they box trailors or flat backs
