Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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You're repeating yourself, you know.
Sorry, thought I was posting in Codger's Corner!
- Thread starter julianf
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Sorry, thought I was posting in Codger's Corner!
redlig
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If you have hot water radiators you could plumb it into the system and dry the logs out that way. Only partially joking . a moisture meter is the best way to check the water content . I was told that felled logs dry at the rate of1 inch (inward ) per year so to give them a couple of hours is not going to reduce the moisture content of the inner log.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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20% appears to be the magic number:
A lot of the Woodsure & Accreditation hoopla's seem to base a lot of standard calcs around the joules of energy produced by wood at 20%.
I also found out from their data - that to get the equivalent heat energy of 1000L of Kero takes between 6-8 Cube of dried logs.
So, unless you have access to timber instead of buying in, a wood burner would be a lot more money to run & a lot less convenient, and take up a lot more space - than my oil system
I season my logs outside for two years in ibc crates, just thrown in so the air can get around them, fully exposed to all weather. Then in September, after a dry spell, I put enough into a weather tight shed to last the winter. Then a barrow full at a time into a log basket by the fire. Works very well for me.
MattF
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I also found out from their data - that to get the equivalent heat energy of 1000L of Kero takes between 6-8 Cube of dried logs.
So, unless you have access to timber instead of buying in, a wood burner would be a lot more money to run & a lot less convenient, and take up a lot more space - than my oil system
An oil system isn't possible with some buildings, mine being one. No gas supply either, so it's electric or wood.
I use wood briquettes now rather than logs. Guaranteed low moisture content from the start.
Guineafowl
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When it’s sleety, dark and cold outside, and you’re sitting with a glass of whisky in front of a crackling fire, you don’t care so much about the costingA lot of the Woodsure & Accreditation hoopla's seem to base a lot of standard calcs around the joules of energy produced by wood at 20%.
I also found out from their data - that to get the equivalent heat energy of 1000L of Kero takes between 6-8 Cube of dried logs.
So, unless you have access to timber instead of buying in, a wood burner would be a lot more money to run & a lot less convenient, and take up a lot more space - than my oil system
Buying split logs would be a last resort - all year round I have my eye out for timber. You can never have too much firewood.
addjunkie
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I ring Sadie the log lady….she even stacks them….its obviously a business expense as our holiday cottages have log burners!When it’s sleety, dark and cold outside, and you’re sitting with a glass of whisky in front of a crackling fire, you don’t care so much about the costing
Buying split logs would be a last resort - all year round I have my eye out for timber. You can never have too much firewood.
My daughter has a log burner, and yes a real fire is very nice.When it’s sleety, dark and cold outside, and you’re sitting with a glass of whisky in front of a crackling fire, you don’t care so much about the costing
Buying split logs would be a last resort - all year round I have my eye out for timber. You can never have too much firewood.
I was just pointing out that the economics of it are only valid if you don't have to buy split logs
Gareth J
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Burning wood to heat is a messy enough business at the best of times without open crates indoors too. Sawdust, bark, moss, woodlice, occasionally wood boring beetle, ivy etc all want to drop off the logs every time you move them. I built 4x plywood boxes that hold enough for one to carry. 1 box lives by the fire and 3x in the porch where they're rotated from. Then all x4 fit onto a widened wheel barrow frame which I wheel up to the log processing/drying shed.
Logs get processed and stacked, loaded in the boxes and not touched again until they're transferred to the fire. And minimum stuff dropped in the house. Cut down on the multiple handling we used to do.
For the OPs use, shelves in a trolley would let you rotate stock.
Logs get processed and stacked, loaded in the boxes and not touched again until they're transferred to the fire. And minimum stuff dropped in the house. Cut down on the multiple handling we used to do.
For the OPs use, shelves in a trolley would let you rotate stock.
Bloke I worked for for a bit used to process logs (among other things).
He used to use IBC outer crates for storing & stacking the wood for drying.
Loads of ventilation and the higgledy-piggeldy pretty rough & random loading method meant pretty good airgaps/airflow for drying the logs (plus of course they could be moved, stacked, loaded etc using a Teletruk).
Close/ordered/neat stacking of logs (unless already dry & stored in a dry place) has to slow the reduction of the water percentage considerably.
He used to use IBC outer crates for storing & stacking the wood for drying.
Loads of ventilation and the higgledy-piggeldy pretty rough & random loading method meant pretty good airgaps/airflow for drying the logs (plus of course they could be moved, stacked, loaded etc using a Teletruk).
Close/ordered/neat stacking of logs (unless already dry & stored in a dry place) has to slow the reduction of the water percentage considerably.
Screwdriver
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Exactly. There appears to be some confusion between freshly cut lumber and seasoned dried wood, ready for the fire.
Freshly cut lumber will have a water content at least twice the (dry) weight of wood and possibly up to TEN TIMES its dry weight in water. So a freshly cut 10kg log could contain 6 - 9 litres of water! The precise amount depends on the exact species but your average firewood tree (!) will be mostly water.
A lot of that water (80%) will evaporate over time as the wood seasons over say a couple of years (outside!) leaving you with a respectable 20% moisture content. Not quite dry enough for carpentry but good enough for the fire.
If after seasoning for a couple of years it makes no difference to the moisture content if the logs then get wet in the rain. The internal cellulose structure of the wood shrivels up as it dries out. The only reason you need to keep them dry as they season is to stop them from rotting. Dry wood does not soak up water anything like as much as a live or freshly felled tree. They get wet/damp and dry out without affecting the "moisture content".
So long as the wood is seasoned, I am quite happy to bring in wet logs out of the rain. It's no worse than hanging up your washing as there's no way a wet log can evaporate litres of water, any more than my damp washing can. Certainly over time, the ~20% moisture content may drop to say 12-15% depending on how hot you keep the house. I have tried this and have empirical data making knife handles from wood I have harvested from my own garden. They may get down to 12% ish over a few weeks but after that, you need to bake them to get the moisture content down.
Guineafowl
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Yes, green wood is far worse to burn than rain-wet seasoned stuff.
Obviously, it’s mainly softwoods up here - according to a local firewood chap, pine sapwood is far more absorbent than spruce when seasoned, so more important to keep it covered.
I have ibc cages for log storage too, if I have to buy logs in, I strap 3 on the back of my old renault master flatdeck and have them drop the logs straight in using their tractor loader bucket, then unload with a forklift & something on top to stop them getting wet and the wind gets in them from the sides to dry them out if theyre not seasoned enough as is often the case when your buying "ready to burn" wood that still smells of resin and is actually freshly cut.
You can buy UV & weather covers for ibc's for cheap that slip over the cages too and they look a lot less industrial, but they restrict airflow from the sides in situ, tidy if they're ready though. There's one place I can drop empty ibc's off the day previously and they will fill them for me, but their wood usually isnt ready to burn despite their claims.
What I really really like about buying wood by the ibc is that you get what you pay for, there's none of the guesswork where a random amount gets tipped in your pickup or a delivery van dumps a pile out and declares a amount, and you only find you was short changed significantly once youve had time to stack it into piles. There it is, its a cube of wood and money doesnt have to change hands on trust about quantity.
Currently I have 3 ibc full in the back of a old van ready to go, and 2 cord left from last winter in the wood store that is two layers of ibc cages bolted together with logs in them already dried and cut and I have to get my finger out and bring in some ash rounds that are well seasoned now from a tree we had felled a few years back and split them.
We use the top layer of the cages first then unbolt and use the bottom one as winter progresses. For the cages in the wood store, we cut a door out the front in each to save having to reach down into the cage from the top. The only heating in there is from a chest freezer that shares the room with the ibc's, so not really a drying measure, just its handy to be able to stack the logs high without worrying about the pile sliding and falling on someone.
To transfer into the utility room where the furnace lives I just use a deep wheelbarrow that fits through the door nicely and bring a days in at a time as my pre-breakfast workout, and it lives on top of the furnace to dispel any residual moisture, there's a bit of aluminium frame I lashed up to act as a log basket on top to stop the logs there rolling off when the cats get on it because its their favourite place as its warm.
We just use too much fuel to be precious about pretty stands to hold it in and stuff, we have a large stone house that has wood fired central heating with no alternative fuel source currently so its all about being efficient and keeping the general mess confined to the utility room.
You can buy UV & weather covers for ibc's for cheap that slip over the cages too and they look a lot less industrial, but they restrict airflow from the sides in situ, tidy if they're ready though. There's one place I can drop empty ibc's off the day previously and they will fill them for me, but their wood usually isnt ready to burn despite their claims.
What I really really like about buying wood by the ibc is that you get what you pay for, there's none of the guesswork where a random amount gets tipped in your pickup or a delivery van dumps a pile out and declares a amount, and you only find you was short changed significantly once youve had time to stack it into piles. There it is, its a cube of wood and money doesnt have to change hands on trust about quantity.
Currently I have 3 ibc full in the back of a old van ready to go, and 2 cord left from last winter in the wood store that is two layers of ibc cages bolted together with logs in them already dried and cut and I have to get my finger out and bring in some ash rounds that are well seasoned now from a tree we had felled a few years back and split them.
We use the top layer of the cages first then unbolt and use the bottom one as winter progresses. For the cages in the wood store, we cut a door out the front in each to save having to reach down into the cage from the top. The only heating in there is from a chest freezer that shares the room with the ibc's, so not really a drying measure, just its handy to be able to stack the logs high without worrying about the pile sliding and falling on someone.
To transfer into the utility room where the furnace lives I just use a deep wheelbarrow that fits through the door nicely and bring a days in at a time as my pre-breakfast workout, and it lives on top of the furnace to dispel any residual moisture, there's a bit of aluminium frame I lashed up to act as a log basket on top to stop the logs there rolling off when the cats get on it because its their favourite place as its warm.
We just use too much fuel to be precious about pretty stands to hold it in and stuff, we have a large stone house that has wood fired central heating with no alternative fuel source currently so its all about being efficient and keeping the general mess confined to the utility room.
Worth finding the local distributor and have a quiet word, they get the odd ibc that leaks when they clean them out ready to sell as water butt's or rainwater tanks and theyre useless for this so happy to sell them cheaper.
I have a ibc dealer local who stashes the cages for me and sells me more periodically.
I have a ibc dealer local who stashes the cages for me and sells me more periodically.
gaz1
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there is alternatives to ibc;s
i know i like free but at certain times just getting the right size is what you need it also keeps the logs off the floor
if your in a sun area you can also use it as a dryer
as ive found out the 2 year store dried out in less than a year with it being in a full sun area
i know i like free but at certain times just getting the right size is what you need it also keeps the logs off the floor
if your in a sun area you can also use it as a dryer
as ive found out the 2 year store dried out in less than a year with it being in a full sun area
addjunkie
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If you have space just pile em high in a shed….a friend of ours is all wood, hires in a processor now and then, they just get rattled in an old cattle barn, with Yorkshire boarding, and turned now and then with a tractor bucket! Shed is split into 4 bays. Wood is bought where ever is cheapest on the day!
