Misterg
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That's impressive!
- Thread starter sg66
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I was on a Self-Build Camper FB Group for a short while (I binned it when it quickly became obvious that is was a big p1$$ing contest, & the only course of action the "Moderators" tolerated was the "spend big" on huge LIPO banks, Solar Arrays, B2B Chargers, Induction Hobs etc. Lpg was derided as archaic rubbish that was dangerous (this from "experts" fitting heavy 300-400aH Lithium bands of questionable provenance & safety in some starship mileage ex-parcel van ).
(There was any number of people on there being "advised" thus, & getting sucked into spending Coachbuilt type sums on self-builds - ending up with a vehicle worth realistically 30 - 40% of what they spent building it. Not for me!).
Quite a lot of posts I saw where people had expensive Lithium battery failures and issues (where the narrative was the big investment cost paid back with far greater life, greater usable capacity etc over Lead-Acid). IMO the lifespan claims, weight saving and performance etc don't match up with reality and the high outlay (at least not some of the time).... so I'm happy sticking with Lead-Acid.
My van build - is old school. Two "019" 100ah Lead batteries in parallel with a split-charge relay does my dc storage. No Solar (my last van had just 1 x 019 battery & I never ran out of juice once, & the battery lasted over 8-years).
3-way lpg fridge is silent & super cheap on lpg, and hob & grill are gas which of course reduces electrical demand considerably.
).(There was any number of people on there being "advised" thus, & getting sucked into spending Coachbuilt type sums on self-builds - ending up with a vehicle worth realistically 30 - 40% of what they spent building it. Not for me!).
Quite a lot of posts I saw where people had expensive Lithium battery failures and issues (where the narrative was the big investment cost paid back with far greater life, greater usable capacity etc over Lead-Acid). IMO the lifespan claims, weight saving and performance etc don't match up with reality and the high outlay (at least not some of the time).... so I'm happy sticking with Lead-Acid.
My van build - is old school. Two "019" 100ah Lead batteries in parallel with a split-charge relay does my dc storage. No Solar (my last van had just 1 x 019 battery & I never ran out of juice once, & the battery lasted over 8-years).
3-way lpg fridge is silent & super cheap on lpg, and hob & grill are gas which of course reduces electrical demand considerably.
ThanksThat's impressive!
I would like to think the insulated unit I've built it into is playing some part, I'm back in making a draw for the unit on Sunday by then I should be onto 3 on the normal settings, god this data gathering malarkey is slow
When I built my base unit for my galley kitchen, I surrounded my lpg fridge space with 40mm celotex/kingspan PIR board, then further sealed the fridge back (to try and insulate/isolate the vented space behind the fridge from the living space heat (& vice versa).
Insulating has got to aid efficiency of the fridge considerably
It's all down to what ever suits you, I've made the unit to be as lightweight as I could so lithium was a no brainer for me simply on the weight saving alone, mine is just a camping pod and removable so I can revert back to the normal 8 seats and luggage when needed, I don't have the ability to fit a gas fridge and vent it as it's not fixed as in permanent, having first hand experience of 12v compressor fridge though I wouldn't consider one now.I was on a Self-Build Camper FB Group for a short while (I binned it when it quickly became obvious that is was a big p1$$ing contest, & the only course of action the "Moderators" tolerated was the "spend big" on huge LIPO banks, Solar Arrays, B2B Chargers, Induction Hobs etc. Lpg was derided as archaic rubbish that was dangerous (this from "experts" fitting heavy 300-400aH Lithium bands of questionable provenance & safety in some starship mileage ex-parcel van
(There was any number of people on there being "advised" thus, & getting sucked into spending Coachbuilt type sums on self-builds - ending up with a vehicle worth realistically 30 - 40% of what they spent building it. Not for me!).
Quite a lot of posts I saw where people had expensive Lithium battery failures and issues (where the narrative was the big investment cost paid back with far greater life, greater usable capacity etc over Lead-Acid). IMO the lifespan claims, weight saving and performance etc don't match up with reality and the high outlay (at least not some of the time).... so I'm happy sticking with Lead-Acid.
My van build - is old school. Two "019" 100ah Lead batteries in parallel with a split-charge relay does my dc storage. No Solar (my last van had just 1 x 019 battery & I never ran out of juice once, & the battery lasted over 8-years).
3-way lpg fridge is silent & super cheap on lpg, and hob & grill are gas which of course reduces electrical demand considerably.
I will stick a pic up once it's complete, I've gone for a standalone 2 burner hob which is going to sit on a table that clips onto a rail, well it will once I've built it
Modern compressor fridges are supposed to be very good. I already had 2 good 3-way & a permanent site, so it made sense to me to save the purchase price. In your situation I can see there's no better option.
Does the Lithium battery really save that much weight (genuine question).
Edit: I just Googled, & my 119ah (C100 rating) Lead 019's weigh just under 24kg each (so call it 48kg for around 100A usable storage sticking to 50% DoD)
That really does add up over time! (Looks like about 25A if the temp is 25c over 24- hours).
Am I working this out right???
6 days at 25A/day - that's 150A for 6-days.... & 150A is just 70% of your Lithium battery usable capacity?
So your battery is around 215AH usable?
(I know the DoD claimed for Lithium is higher than for Led-Acid, but not sure of the reality, as I've also read that for best life that Lithium also is best restricted to 50% DoD)
200ah deep cycle batteries I was looking at were between 50 to 60kg
I think mine is 25kg the 100ah is only 10kg which had I known how frugal the fridge actually is would have done fine, dohhj.
Whilst I would like to say price was irrelevant it wasn't an issue, I've made everything apart from the fridge and sink and the price of pre made units minus fridge and battery were pretty hefty, when you added those in they became eye watering and are still generic, and no where near as light as what I've made, hopefully
A 100ah is only 10kg, but a 200ah is 50-60kg? Guessing the 200ah is much stronger kit & a proper deep-cycle build.
Technically I have 200ah at 48kg (but not the same DoD though).
Pre-made Camper furniture is silly money indeed. Like you I made my own. (Unlike you mine isn't very light though... or that well-made - a cabinet maker I ain't!).
I'd be interested to see pics of your pod once done though for sure
Forklift batteries get loads of abuse. They are charged relatively quickly and deep discharged day in day out. They still last many years.
Your 50% figure is deliberately pessimistic. 70 to 75% is more accurate. So how much for a 38kwh battery bank?
If they are still good enough for hunter killer submarines they should be good enough for most people!
Misterg
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I think that's for 200Ah of lead-acid.
These are mine: Two Trojan T-105 6V 225Ah deep cycle batteries (aka golf buggy batteries).
28kg each, so 56kg for 225AH. (Something like 180AH usable on an occasional basis, but they've never been anywhere near that discharged. I think I've been down to 60% once in 5 years as the solar normally keeps up with demand.)
I considered lithium at the time of my build (2018/2019). Using a daily requirement of 40AH, the cost per cycle was lowest for the T-105s and cheap(er) lithium. I was less than convinced that the cheaper options for lithium would live up to their claims (I still am, really), but the Trojan T-105s have been around long enough for their lifetime to be well known and proven. They were £275 at the time (for both) vs something like £800 for a 100Ah Chinese lithium or £1100+ for a Victron 100Ah lithium.
This is the lifetime curve for the T-105. I'm hoping to get at least 10 years out of them.
If I were doing it again, I'd have another look at lithium as the 'real world' experience is building up, but wouldn't go bigger than 100Ah. I'd definitely fit solar (about 150W).
For weight saving, though, lithium really is a no-brainer.
Beeezer
Things are really chaining for the better….
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I put 350w of solar panel on my van roof about two months ago.
It goes to a 100/30 Victron controller then to two 110ah lead acid batteries.
The first thing I plugged in was my compressor fridge and it’s not been turned off since.
The lowest the batteries have been is 12.4 I’m very impressed.
It goes to a 100/30 Victron controller then to two 110ah lead acid batteries.
The first thing I plugged in was my compressor fridge and it’s not been turned off since.
The lowest the batteries have been is 12.4 I’m very impressed.
Good stuff! I'm in agreement with your cost-benefit analysis.... as you (& sg66) say, the main advantage is the weight.I think that's for 200Ah of lead-acid.
These are mine: Two Trojan T-105 6V 225Ah deep cycle batteries (aka golf buggy batteries).
28kg each, so 56kg for 225AH. (Something like 180AH usable on an occasional basis, but they've never been anywhere near that discharged. I think I've been down to 60% once in 5 years as the solar normally keeps up with demand.)
I considered lithium at the time of my build (2018/2019). Using a daily requirement of 40AH, the cost per cycle was lowest for the T-105s and cheap(er) lithium. I was less than convinced that the cheaper options for lithium would live up to their claims (I still am, really), but the Trojan T-105s have been around long enough for their lifetime to be well known and proven. They were £275 at the time (for both) vs something like £800 for a 100Ah Chinese lithium or £1100+ for a Victron 100Ah lithium.
This is the lifetime curve for the T-105. I'm hoping to get at least 10 years out of them.
If I were doing it again, I'd have another look at lithium as the 'real world' experience is building up, but wouldn't go bigger than 100Ah. I'd definitely fit solar (about 150W).
For weight saving, though, lithium really is a no-brainer.
Trojan are pukka deep-cycle kit (where I suspect a lot of the "Leisure" batteries are little more than a sticker change). In fact my habitat battery in last van was just an ordinary LA 019..... lasted over 8-years.
Some off-grid home installs done using 24v 1000ah or 48v 525ah "forklift" deep,cycle packs lasted 10, even 12 years of constant use (with proper charging set-up & some basic mtce), so your Trojans should be grand
.Not all ah ratings are the same though, as you probably know. We installed Chloride or similar "Forklift" stuff as the ah rating is established over a 5-hour discharge (so with a much bigger load applied), where even much more costly Rolls 6v monoblocs (similar to Trojan design) were rated over a 20-hour discharge (C20).
In the small print some cheaper "Leisure" batteries ah might be rated to C100.... so many don't know if their comparing apples with apples - or with bananas.
(I have 2 new lead Leisure battery from Tayna ready to fit in my van [my years old existing are standing up well, but at about £80 each for 100ah (C20) 019's] with a 4-yr warranty....)
As per my reply to Misterg above. Forklift batteries really ARE stronger as their output rating is tested & certified on much bigger loadings (& batts are far better at small loads over long duration than big loads over short duration). Ergo a (say) 200ah Forklift cell is actually significantly more powerful than its 200ah Leisure (C20) alternative.
The flattest part of the discharge curve of a lead-acid is between 20 & 80-odd percent, so you get the most current for the least voltage drop. On off-grid inverter-charger-battery setups, the charge voltages would be set to utilise this 60% zone for longevity & performance, (80 - 100% only being engaged during periodic "Equalise" cycles to minimise stratification, sulphates & to boost SG levels in the Electrolyte). It's going below 20% (where voltage plummets under load on the curve) that needs avoiding.
Like all selling fluff - I think there us some exaggeration of the DoD on the trendy Lithium capability - and under-playing of the DoD that Lead-Acid can handle (& it's put about enough that the exaggerated performance difference is greater that this becomes established "fact").
IMO Lithium Leisure Batteries extra cost isn't justified of warranted given the real performance difference (unless like the OP, the weight is the most important factor)
The 100ah lithium 10kg the 230ah lithium 25 the 230ah AGM lead 60kgA 100ah is only 10kg, but a 200ah is 50-60kg? Guessing the 200ah is much stronger kit & a proper deep-cycle build.
Technically I have 200ah at 48kg (but not the same DoD though).
Pre-made Camper furniture is silly money indeed. Like you I made my own. (Unlike you mine isn't very light though... or that well-made - a cabinet maker I ain't!).
I'd be interested to see pics of your pod once done though for sure
Misterg
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Out of curiosity, I looked up current prices:
T-105s have gone up from £275 to £340 the pair. (225Ah lead acid)
Cost/cycle* : £0.10
Victron 100Ah lithium has come down from ~£1100 to £866
Cost/cycle : £0.12
Sterling 100Ah lithium is now ~500
Cost/cycle : £0.06
For the extra outlay, I'd probably go with the Sterling lithium (or equivalent) now, provided that user feedback was good.
*based on a 40Ah cycle.
Fogstar are way better on price than those
