Jaguar XE strikes again!

[Bullet2012]

he is under the (mistaken) impression that a battery showing 78% is a good battery, having been told multiple times that all modern vehicles, especially JLR, are incredibly battery sensitive, and the battery is no longer providing necessary voltage stability. its ability to start the car is irrelevant.

Also modern batteries do not like the drop test style of testers. Anyway we have tried to assist the OP.
so I am out and will go back to utilising my cranium to demolish a brick wall

 

[JOEPRO]

Please define what you mean by this. Thank you

It doesn't matter. I have an advanced battery tester.....

Not getting into it going off Subject.

he is under the (mistaken) impression that a battery showing 78% is a good battery, having been told multiple times that all modern vehicles, especially JLR, are incredibly battery sensitive, and the battery is no longer providing necessary voltage stability. its ability to start the car is irrelevant.

OK so I got a 3 month old genuine MB AGM battery perfect one 100% health etc and the car is the same.

I appreciate the replies. But don't go into defend mode when I say you can trust me on this!

I know nothing about jags as its not my interest. But I am very experienced in auto electronics and batteries running several S classes of my own for 20 years. So I am well used to that and good thing to check thanks for the suggestions in that regard but it's not the battery.

 

[JOEPRO]

That is quite a list of codes!
I have had numerous random codes and issues with my Freelander 2, all due to battery and earthing issues, main earth is crap,(known issue) added a second earth bolted directly to engine and body, I also charge the battery regularly when doing short journeys. I put it on charge every night in the winter.

Yes it is.

Some are real. Such as NOx codes being historic.

Others are likely all related to the same issue like Can network going down so the qty of codes does not concern me its finding the root cause of this issue.

I think I'll have to manually trace the main battery cables up the car to starter and make sure they are all tight and when at it try jumping the starter motor directly to rule that out too.

 

[AVI_8]

I had s similar problem once with a BMW, many spurious faults on lots of non related components, I eventually narrowed it down to a multi plug on a webasto heater which had got moisture in the connector and had corroded, you’ve mentioned it’s not the battery, I’d be checking earths and connectors, especially where moisture could be a problem.

 

[Ubique]

Yes it is.

Some are real. Such as NOx codes being historic.

Others are likely all related to the same issue like Can network going down so the qty of codes does not concern me its finding the root cause of this issue.

I think I'll have to manually trace the main battery cables up the car to starter and make sure they are all tight and when at it try jumping the starter motor directly to rule that out too.

Before you do all that, find the starter relay, bridge it out to trigger the starter with a voltmeter on the battery, if that fires up (obviously have the ignition on!) then check the voltage at the relay (terminal 30), there was an issue with L322 4.4TDV8 starter relays having a volt drop on their term. 30, causing symptoms similar to yours - I have no idea if this 'feature' transferred across to Jag's as I've only (and resolutely) worked on the LR part of JLR - Jags are too close to the floor and have far too much shoehorned in for me! If still problematic, put your voltmeter between the engine and a good body earth, then bridge the relay again, even if the starter doesn't turn, it should highlight if there is any volt drop - or not. Don't get too fixated on communications at this stage, there's not really any 'missing messages' or U codes to worry about, you do need to be methodical and work from the battery onwards, without bypassing anything 'cos that won't be it'.

 

[JOEPRO]

Before you do all that, find the starter relay, bridge it out to trigger the starter with a voltmeter on the battery, if that fires up (obviously have the ignition on!) then check the voltage at the relay (terminal 30), there was an issue with L322 4.4TDV8 starter relays having a volt drop on their term. 30, causing symptoms similar to yours - I have no idea if this 'feature' transferred across to Jag's as I've only (and resolutely) worked on the LR part of JLR - Jags are too close to the floor and have far too much shoehorned in for me! If still problematic, put your voltmeter between the engine and a good body earth, then bridge the relay again, even if the starter doesn't turn, it should highlight if there is any volt drop - or not. Don't get too fixated on communications at this stage, there's not really any 'missing messages' or U codes to worry about, you do need to be methodical and work from the battery onwards, without bypassing anything 'cos that won't be it'.

Thank you for that, good advice and good point on the starter relay.

I was out with it there for a couple hours and I think I have a theory now. There are a number of fault codes relating to seat belts and no comms with restraint module. Including on the engine ECU.

Also, the fault code reader cannot see the RCM. This suggests either that module has lost power or has a corroded plug IMO.

And if the RCM can't be seen by the engine ECU to my knowledge this could be a no start cause. Such as the ECU additionally indicating crash status.

So Im thinking I need to look up the location of the RCM in a 2016 Jag XE, locate and inspect it in her car next I think that may be the issue or at least its the strongest lead I have yet.

 

[JOEPRO]

Jaguar Forum

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www.jaguarforum.com

I'll see you there!

Which model is yours?

It's a 2016 XE Saloon - not sure if I'll join the forum yet I'll see how I get on in the coming days.

There are some great Mercedes forums such as 500E Board but Jag wise doesn't seem like so much.

 

[Ubique]

If there is no comms to the RCM, then there will be loss of comms to other modules as at least the HS-CAN will pass through. Once you identify the HS-CAN in & out, you could bridge them across to bypass the RCM, that should enable a start, or at least let it crank.

 

[Wightsparks]

Can you clear out the codes, wait until it faults - (not sure how intermittent the no-start is) and post what has come back.

When you say "clicks and shudders" when it faults can you explain a bit more?

 

[JOEPRO]

If there is no comms to the RCM, then there will be loss of comms to other modules as at least the HS-CAN will pass through. Once you identify the HS-CAN in & out, you could bridge them across to bypass the RCM, that should enable a start, or at least let it crank.

As far as I understand it many cars will not have start authorisation if the engine ECU cant see the RCM.

I have ordered a CD rom workshop manual for this car so I should have more info shortly on the wiring diagrams etc

Can you clear out the codes, wait until it faults - (not sure how intermittent the no-start is) and post what has come back.

When you say "clicks and shudders" when it faults can you explain a bit more?

There are 5 engine codes basically glow plug. Then 2x comms missing errors for the RCM and Crash Status. All return immediately and are permanent.

Other modules still have codes relating to seat belts etc.

The car starts to click the door locks etc randomly when I turn the ignition on. Its hard to explain I guess.

I will have more time on Saturday to check it out closer and hope to have the wiring diagrams by then too.

 

[JOEPRO]

If your S600 and your wife’s Jag is such a financial burden to you, may I suggest buying a Dacia sandero….or two?

The Dacia is looking good right now

Who knew that a large displacement twin turbo V12 is not a practical stand by mule

I secretly hope the Jag stays broken and I'll have to suffer my S600 as a daily longer.

 

[Ubique]

Bridging out the RCM will cause many DTC's but it will restore comms, it will also allow you to clear the crash status in the ECM (or should do!) as there is no crash inhibit being broadcast. The door locks cycling are a function of the crash broadcast - does it also put the hazard lights and interior lights on?

 

[JOEPRO]

Bridging out the RCM will cause many DTC's but it will restore comms, it will also allow you to clear the crash status in the ECM (or should do!) as there is no crash inhibit being broadcast. The door locks cycling are a function of the crash broadcast - does it also put the hazard lights and interior lights on?

No hazard lights that I recall. Interior lights may come on though I'll check that the next time

 

[Ubique]

Before you go too far, I've been looking at some L322 wiring, it appears the HS-CAN isn't loop through but there is a secondary ENS broadcasting to the GEM & ECM - so that would account for the crash status being current in the other modules if HS-CAN is down. Obviously it's not a Jag, but it's of the correct era, systems-wise and at that time Jag, LR, Volvo & Aston Martin were all part of PAG so would share a lot of components and design methodologies.

 

[Wightsparks]

Thanks. What bugs me is the codes are permanent and come back at ign on- but the no start is intermittent.
No airbag light ?
I agree with @Ubique the RCM is dead and either the crash inhibit is stopping cranking or it is intermittently corrupting the HS network causing the no-start. I would just (battery off for a few mins!) disconnect it and see if that fixes it.
If not then will need to look at overall network topology for the car.

 

[RWD3M]

As far as I understand it many cars will not have start authorisation if the engine ECU cant see the RCM.

I have ordered a CD rom workshop manual for this car so I should have more info shortly on the wiring diagrams etc



There are 5 engine codes basically glow plug. Then 2x comms missing errors for the RCM and Crash Status. All return immediately and are permanent.

Other modules still have codes relating to seat belts etc.

The car starts to click the door locks etc randomly when I turn the ignition on. Its hard to explain I guess.

I will have more time on Saturday to check it out closer and hope to have the wiring diagrams by then too.

Jaguar XE workshop manual

This is a complete workshop manual download for the XE with ingenium engine. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ee2nxkx6fgqmb25/workshop_manual.zip?dl=1

www.jaguarforum.com

 

[sako243]

@JOEPRO you can access the full official workshop manuals via TOPIx

Login | TOPIx

topix.jaguar.jlrext.com

A few days access isn't too bad price wise and from what I remember it's pretty intuitive being able to click through pictures of the vehicle to access relevant sections.

Someone downloaded the whole L322 one and turned it into a PDF and for what I looked at it's comprehensive on describing the systems etc.

 

[mart]

Not a problem if you're sensible about what you buy. Also if you buy japanese you won't be car shopping very often.

The taxi drivers in their Toyota Avensis is testament to this. The D4D engine is bullet proof. I have the same engine in my Corolla. The early Toyota 'people carrier' was also fitted with the D4D engine.

 

[RWD3M]

What's the latest @JOEPRO ?

 

[JOEPRO]

What's the latest @JOEPRO ?

Haven't got near it since just can't get time. I might get a lend of a Jaguar laptop tomorrow which could be a better approach VS poking around with a multimeter.

Jag guy should also be able to take it next week now he was busy until then