Jaguar rebrand

[Nomad]

Aren't the USA and China the 2 biggest emitters of CO2?

To answer your question, USA have reduced their co2 a lot in the last 5 years but are still top / near top.

UK is in 17th place - on par with Vietnam - so shutting down *All* UK industry would have almost zero effect on a global scale.
It makes you wonder why so much effort is being spent changing things in the UK

Table below showing co2 emissions (from 2024 data) at https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
Notice the top line !

Facts (using 2022 data?) from https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
Note the values, top spot is nearly 3 times 2nd place !
Tip: you can click on the "per capita" column to change the view...

Hope the facts above help explain things, some of the items on the list were a surprise to me.
Every day is a school day

 

[Nomad]

More info for anyone thinking about going electric - this was a shock to me (article is 18 moths old so things might have changed).

At $6,200, Could This 2004 Land Rover Get You Disco Dancing? - Jalopnik

Is a low-cost Land Rover Discovery II a risk worth taking?

www.jalopnik.com

A Telsa in Scotland wouldn't start after a rain storm. Battery was declared waterlogged / dead, a new battery is £17,500 - and the cost isn't covered under warranty.
The unhappy owner says "Tesla are not fit for purpose in Scotland" **Expect similar problems in Wales. Are Tesla the only EV with this weak point??

It's not a dig at Tesla or EV's, info is shared as it was something I'd not heard before and it's background for anyone thinking of buying an EV

 

[DanZac]

A Telsa in Scotland wouldn't start after a rain storm. Battery was declared waterlogged / dead, a new battery is £17,500 - and the cost isn't covered under warranty.
The unhappy owner says "Tesla are not fit for purpose in Scotland" **Expect similar problems in Wales. Are Tesla the only EV with this weak point??

There's an awful lot of "Allegedly, Apparently, and "claim not to have driven through floodwater" in all the versions of that story I can find online.

It's a bit like claiming you never drove your hydrolocked car through a flood. And then getting shirty when the manufacturer won't replace the engine for free.

 

[More Amps]

I've just read that Jaguar are seeking a new advertising agency...they must have been reading this thread!

 

[Blobber]

I've just read that Jaguar are seeking a new advertising agency...they must have been reading this thread!

To be fair they got a fair bit of press!

 

[brightspark]

There's an awful lot of "Allegedly, Apparently, and "claim not to have driven through floodwater" in all the versions of that story I can find online.

It's a bit like claiming you never drove your hydrolocked car through a flood. And then getting shirty when the manufacturer won't replace the engine for free.

the mind boggles just to top it of they rev the chuckys of it and p;robably bent the conrods or duffed the crankshaft

 

[Nomad]

Putting this here with the other EV chat as I can't find a dedicated EV thread

Crew evacuated from Zodiac Maritime vehicle carrier in Pacific Ocean after fire

UK shipowner Zodiac Maritime has confirmed fire started within a deck loaded with electric vehicles

www.lloydslist.com

Video of the event

Some details not yet confirmed but smoke was first seen on an "EV only" deck on the ship...

For info some shipping companies already have routes that won't allow EVs on board

Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on board classic ferry route

Electric car fires are seen as too difficult to extinguish to allow them on board, according to shipping company Havila Kystruten.

ctif.org

Isle of Wight https://www.islandecho.co.uk/wightl...c-vehicles-from-next-month-over-safety-fears/

A friend there tells me they also have a policy of not allowing damaged EVs on the ferry so if you drive your EV there and have a crash you have no cheap / easy way to get it back to the mainland for repair


For comparison, a friend bought a new Tesla just over 3 years ago and loves it (but has driven under 6k miles in total so far), she gave me a lift and it was smooth but very different to the cars I'm used to...

 

[Bki26]

I would love to know how these cars keep going up in smoke, they're not exposed to the sea and are fully built not parts so only way the battery could "fail" is the car getting smashed around in rough seas (which I doubt they'd sail in as damage = lost profit) or the battery packs are being built to terrible standards.

 

[jmp49]

Didnt I read that the ship cargo was a transport between china and mexico. Both areas known for strict regulation, quality control & build quality?

 

[voipio]

Taking a ball park figure of 5,000 cells in an EV battery pack, multiplied by 800 vehicles, give a total of 4,000,000 cells in all the battery packs. So that's the probability of one cell going up in smoke, multiplied 4,000,000 times.

 

[Farside]

Putting this here with the other EV chat as I can't find a dedicated EV thread

Crew evacuated from Zodiac Maritime vehicle carrier in Pacific Ocean after fire

UK shipowner Zodiac Maritime has confirmed fire started within a deck loaded with electric vehicles

www.lloydslist.com

Terrible paint job on the side of that.

"Nevertheless, so far none of the incidents have proven to be caused by electric vehicles."
You'd think that would be trivially easy to address with CCTV recording to the bridge.

 

[dobbslc]

They've been told to keep their mouths shut.

 

[keithski122]

Might just have been an old vw camper, they tend to catch fire a lot but people forget that.

 

[Ubique]

Obviously this lot didn't get the memo....

Ship Loaded With Thousands Of Cars Still Burning Days After Crew Abandons It At Sea | Carscoops

Morning Midas was en route to Mexico with 70 EVs and 681 hybrids among 3,048 cars when the fire broke out in the Pacific

www.carscoops.com

The Morning Midas departed China for Mexico on May 26, carrying roughly 3,000 vehicles, including around 800 electric cars. But eight days into its 19-day voyage, just after midnight UTC (7:00 p.m. EST) on June 3, smoke was spotted billowing from one of the decks. UK-based shipowner Zodiac Maritime, which manages the vessel, has since confirmed that the fire originated in the section of the ship carrying electric vehicles.

Also https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/the-shipping-world-isnt-ready-for-the-risk-evs-pose-and-heres-why/

I'm more than a little bemused as to why they are starting to build full electric ferries using the same stored energy as regularly 'goes thermal'....

Also from a link on the Lloyds site

The industry debate on these issues is certain to continue. Wallenius Wilhelmsen, the world’s largest operator of pure car and truck carriers, has argued publicly that the transport of EVs does not present any greater risk than any other vehicle type.


Nevertheless, the company has introduced restrictions on electric vehicle li-ion battery charging on board its vessels to a maximum of 30%.


The lower state of charge should mean it takes longer for a battery to go into thermal runaway should a fire occur. Previously, such batteries were typically charged at up to 70%.


Other stipulations from Wallenius Wilhelmsen include checking vehicles’ electronic warning systems and clearly indicating EVs on a vessel’s loading plan.

New guidelines on car carrier fire response from industry experts

High-profile casualties include Höegh Xiamen, Felicity Ace, Grande Costa d’Avorio and Fremantle Highway

www.lloydslist.com

So they're suggesting BEV's are not any more likely to cause a fire, but want extra precautions & safeguards for them anyway?

 

[Ubique]

I'm not sure if I've posted this here before....
Worth a read, especially if you have plans to charge an EV in a garage below your bedroom.

 

[jmp49]

Might just have been an old vw camper, they tend to catch fire a lot but people forget that.

Fuel tank over the top of the engine behind a panel that you have to remove the engine to access, rubber fuel lines that rot, and they run across the engine bay to the carb. I mean, its not like inaccessible fuel lines that are a pig to inspect might perish and leak onto the hot bits and cause a fire by design...
When I started my T2 late bay after a deep slumber of 10 years or so, I ran it off a bike header tank feeding the carb directly to avoid it going up like a bonfire for this very reason...

I'm kind of meh about ubique's last post. They kept the car in quarantine for a week, knowing the battery had been presented with a issue, they then took out the battery because actually yes it did have a issue and then... just abandoned it under the car on a trolly, then it caught fire because it still had a issue 3 WEEKS LATER. What did they expect, it was going to cure itself?

I have some direct insight into how robust and to what tolerance battery trays are manufactured and tested to in Europe, and the standards are far far higher than the sillicon mess and near enough of chinese ones. Remember that when your in the BYD showroom about to save a few grand over the "expensive" alternatives from car makers you've heard of.

 

[Ubique]

...
I'm kind of meh about ubique's last post. They kept the car in quarantine for a week, knowing the battery had been presented with a issue, they then took out the battery because actually yes it did have a issue and then... just abandoned it under the car on a trolly, then it caught fire because it still had a issue 3 WEEKS LATER. What did they expect, it was going to cure itself?

...

I'll answer this with some more detail that wasn't presented in the H&S notes
The vehicle was presented with an 'HV fault', not a specific battery defect, as per Audi procedures, the vehicle was quarantined and initial electronic diagnostic read done. The initial quarantine is to allow any potential thermal events possibly caused by the recovery of the vehicle to happen prior to the vehicle being worked on. The initial diagnostic report was sent to the manufacturer (as per process) to gain authority to proceed with battery removal, this was required as the BMS, not the battery cells, was showing as defective and had failed-safe by opening the HV contactor. The trolley is actually a specific piece of mandated workshop equipment, designed to hold the battery whilst it is being installed or removed from the vehicle, it has specific attachment points and is more rigid than the battery enclosure to prevent any flexing. SOP's at the time required the battery to be stored in the HV work quarantine area, along with the vehicle it was removed from (hence why it was stored under the shell of the vehicle in the workshop), this was to prevent any movement related shock or stress to the frame and to maintain a relatively steady temperature or at least slow down the rate of change compared to being in ambient storage. The timeline of 'three weeks later' was entirely due to the ping-pong between the dealership, manufacturer and parts supply, not waiting for it to fix itself. The defect was identified in the BMS, the cell charge level history, temperature range nor coolant circuit monitoring did not show any concerns with the cells themselves, just the supervisor module built into the casing - not even one or both of the battery management systems or their contactors (which were both confirmed as automatically opened during the 'make safe process' prior to removal. The battery also passed the 'safe to transport' tests, prior to disconnection from the vehicle, what couldn't be determined was the state of charge at the time the supervisory function defect occured.

This timeline and process isn't unusual, I did it myself many times across different dealerships, all things being equal, if a battery is 'left well alone' and is electrically inert, then it should be capable of being stored indefinitely, it also didn't 'catch fire' - it suffered a containment breach due to an internal defect, causing a subsequent fire in the environment it was stored in. We were (as employees & manufacturer trained and accredited EV technicians) given much more detail than the 'broad brush' H&S report, some of which is in my response above, some procedures have changed and there are now thermal cameras and gas detectors installed in all workshops that work on BEV's along with outdoor covered storage areas and limits on the number of vehicles that can be in process at any one time. It's still a hazardous job, no-one I know want's to volunteer for the manufacturer training to replace individual cells, despite financial incentives.....

 

[BrokenBiker]

Any JLR owner needs one of two things on their person at all times

A buss pass or a tow rope

Can confirm this to be true

 

[Ubique]

...

I have some direct insight into how robust and to what tolerance battery trays are manufactured and tested to in Europe, and the standards are far far higher than the sillicon mess and near enough of chinese ones. Remember that when your in the BYD showroom about to save a few grand over the "expensive" alternatives from car makers you've heard of.

The thing is, the well-known brands have Thermal runaway too - Tesla, M-B, VWG, Ford (the Mrs. works at a Ford dealer, a Mach-E pre-launch demonstrator 'went hot' coming off the delivery truck...) & Volvo - OK, Geely, are all brands that I know of that've had issues - the Ford dealer had an e-Transit recovered in, well, the remains of, I'm not sure what the driver/owner was expecting! it was sent away for insurance assessors to deal with.... I'm not aware of the bargain-basement chinesium products causing combustion any more frequently, perhaps they're sifted out on the trip here and never seen again once they've cut a hole through the ships hull?

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I think it's byd that have a more robust blade battery...they test it by driving nails into it!

Pretty sure they sell their batteries to others too.