Is it worth learning to weld?

[jacko1337]

Hi all,

I can rant a bit so please be patient!

I've just signed up as I've been awake for 2 days trying to work out if its worth the investment to buy and learn to TIG weld. I'll be as brief as I can..

Me:
I have no experience of welding but my Dad was a welder so I remember a lot of theory, plus the internet helps. I'm a very practical person and quite good at engineering/researching - hard to describe my practical skills here but if I say you picked 100 people off the street and taught them to weld, I'd be one of the fastest to pick it up I'm one of those people that picks things up quite quickly. But as I have never welded I don't know what the learning curve is going to be.

The situation:
I need to make a custom aluminium fuel tank, build a new subframe for a 180KG engine, re-enforce the chassis and do some minor cleanups (patching up, some mounts and little body work bits). The most critical bit of work that I'm worried about is the subframe. The chassis is effectively a ladder/monocoque chassis, and I've cut out the chassis beams immediately before and after the engine (MR layout). I need to weld new beams in place slightly further from the engine at the front and back, and onto these new beams the new subframe will hang. So all the engine will be supported by (potentially my) new structures.

The finances:
I estimate that for a cheap chinese AC DC TIG welder at £400, I'd need another £150 of various bits including upgrading the power supply to 30amps (single phase still). After that it will be £60/year for an argon bottle rental and £50 for refills. So call it £600 setup fee's, and maybe £20/month in disposables

The questions!!!
1) With the amount of work described, do you think its more economical to pay someone to do all the work or for me to invest in a TIG welder? I had a quote for the fuel tank alone and that was almost 4 figures :S

2) Do you think that with enough practice within a few months I would be competent enough to safely weld new chassis beams and an engine subframe?


Thanks in advance - I hope you can make sense of it, and understand why I'm so undecided!

 

[chevy2]

I'm not trying to put you off but some of the stuff you're looking at doing is a bit ambitious for someone thats never welded, especially the ali fuel tank.

by all means go for it with the tig but get plenty of bench torch time first to build your skill level up,
once you feel confident enough start on the chassis patching followed by the structural stuff and only after a lot of experience tackle the ali tank as that'll need to be 100% leak free,
Good luck.

 

[jacko1337]

Exactly - thanks for the reply. I'm not sure if the whole thing is TOO ambitious! But maybe even if it costs me another £600 in gas and consumables that will be simply practice bits, then binned, I'm wondering if its still cost effective.

Forgot to mention I'd also be making the exhaust from the collector to the silencer. More work I wouldn't have to pay someone to do, and probably one of the best 'practice' bits to do.

 

[Jim Davey]

Where are you based? I'm happy to offer some training and I'm sure others would be if the work to beer money ratio could be agreed upon

 

[jacko1337]

Where are you based? I'm happy to offer some training and I'm sure others would be if the work to beer money ratio could be agreed upon

Ha thanks, up north in Skipton. Probably a bit far

I'm still weighing it all up though even if its not 'cost effective' it would be a nice skill to have.

 

[chriso]

It would be a nice skill to have.

25 years ago I had to learn to stick weld to keep equipment at work going - welding is not my job but has become a useful (small) part of my current job - in minutes I can fix a part that might take weeks to come from abroad or be horrendously expensive.
I'm learning TIG at the moment - mostly for brazing to join dissimilar metals.

 

[jacko1337]

I may actually settle for MIG and make the tank out of stainless - or just get someone else to do it. But definitely need a welder for steel & mild steel.

I work in IT so I don't really have any use for a welder once this project has finished - at least, no use.... yet!

 

[dannyp]

ther s a fair few costs you missed out.

if you have no other reson to want to weld just sub it out will be easyer, quicker and probaly cheeper tbh

 

[chriso]

there's a fair few costs you missed out.

That's why I still have the stick welder I bought in '92 - £50 and some rods....

The TIG we've got was £270 but the purchase of gas+cylinder+regulator was £175.

 

[Premiershipman]

Really no one can advise on what many consider to be a 'worthwhile' skill.

Some of the guys on here weld as a profession and produce some phenomenal work, others are pure artists with the sculptures they produce, and others do it for fun.

I really enjoy it, albeit with 3 kids I don't get much time at the moment to practice, but I have made a few small sculptures and sold them at craft shows and made some larger items - welding bench, sandblast cabinet and some hand welded christmas presents.

Ultimately the decision is up to you, nothing good comes easy and Tig welding is hard as I am still practicing to get half decent.

Maybe book yourself on some kind of college course to get the practice without spending for all the equipment, that way if you don't like it or whatever then you haven't got equipment that you have 'wasted' money on.

All up to you, I love it when I get the chance to 'play' !!

Shady

 

[chunkolini]

Jacko
I think you have made the right decision, sub out the complex bits at least for now and get on with the easier less frustrating bits. Mig is a lot easier to get on with.
Your last comment made me laugh.
" so I don't really have any use for a welder once this project has finished - at least, no use.... yet! "
The word Yet!
First you have to knock up a few projects to get the feel for the game. any old pushbikes lying about?
This kind of nonsense make for a great first project after the welding table.


I had planned on a motorbike project when I started welding, 13 years later I have still not touched a motorbike with a welder.

 

[jacko1337]

Thanks for all the replies - I do think that maybe its a little too much hassle and I should just sub contract it out. One thing I didn't take into account is the cost of buying materials if I mess up - mild steel is dirt cheap but stainless and aluminium is a small fortune. Especially if I mess up so bad I can't grind it back and re-use it. Which is likely to happen.

Shame that my local college does a TIG course but application closed last week!

I probably should have mentioned that my neighbour has a small MIG welder which I'm sure he is happy to lend me if I cover the gas/mat's. Its never going to be powerful enough to weld chassis bits but I think I will start practicing with that, maybe even buy my own, and then contract out the tank/chassis/subframe.

At least that way I will still be able to do the small bits myself - after all, I presume a professional welder charges the same £ for an hours work, regardless if its doing some small patches or some big chassis work.

 

[BrokenBiker]

if it is just for a one hit project then I would pay someone else to do it.

the time it will take for you to learn to weld well enough to make a fuel tank will delay your project, you will have to be sure of good strong welds to make a frame to hold an engine too.

and even though you may be able to pick most things up quite quickly, that doesn't mean you can do the same with TIG. there are a lot of things to concentrate on, torch angle, arc length, dipping the rod, moving in steady smooth increments, watching the puddle, not blowing through on thin stuff, probably using a foot pedal on alu too so have that to think about as well.

if it is a hobby you would like to take up and make odds and ends with then go for it, but just for one project I wouldn't bother spending all that money just to end up with a welder that you will never use again

 

[jacko1337]

and even though you may be able to pick most things up quite quickly, that doesn't mean you can do the same with TIG.

Thats kind of the response I was looking for - as I said I do learn new things with ease. But from the sounds of it its probably way way too much.

From reading forums and such since it seems that DIY MIG and even sometimes professional MIG welders find it hard to justify the jump to TIG. And the latter do it for a living - so I am in the mindset that TIG for DIY/one project is simply not worth it. Which is a shame because I was looking forward to it

But in any case I will borrow/buy a MIG and do the easy stuff myself.

As always I am grateful for an anonymous community helping me out but chances are (since I made my decision) I probably won't sign back in. At least not until I have questions about a MIG welder (kidding, there are lots of good articles here) or until my next project when I am looking to recruit 150x experienced welders to help make a 2.5GW nuclear reactor

 

[jacko1337]

not blowing through on thin stuff

Oh sorry, this is probably an even better point - definitely my biggest ever fear ever - If I did this I would destroy a chassis that I spend almost £1k modifying. Again from reading mig-welding forums its apparently quite easy to do for an amateur.

And I don't want to do that!

 

[BrokenBiker]

blowing through on thin metal with mig is very easily done, and not so easily repaired without porosity