Insulation

[DAPPH]

Really no easy fix, out properties are just not designed for insulation.

Though I'm considering a PIV fan

You can get decent thermal plaster boards with foam on the wall side. it's a common way of insulating houses from the inside, but you do make the room smaller on each outside wall by just over an inch by fitting them

 

[willie.macleod]

really thats what grenfell fire thought and it burnt down and people are installing it in there houses with no warnings of the dangers of the stuff

as goes for council they dont care its what you use for insulation its your problem not theres, they dont even give you an advisary warning you of the insulation is a fire risk and they know full well it is

Grenfell is not what we are talking about here, there the insulation was sitting in a air gap with no fire breaks. That is clearly an issue and was well know a long time ago. We are talking about internal wall insulation where there is no air gap.

My building control officer knew his stuff and was a stickler for detail,, my build was the first for many of the techniques and materials and everything was challenged, quite rightly so. Unlike the rest of the UK we can't buy our building control officers off, we have to use local authority officers not just any 3rd party company who will take our money to issue a cert.

 

[gaz1]

you changed the reference only your first part had the reference to internal wall insulation your brackets reference was plasterboard insulation

The only insulation I'd use for that would be internal wall insulation (plasterboard stuck to insulation sheets), it'll lose a bit of space internally but transform the room.

plasterboard stuck to insulation sheet only has 1/2hr fire protection an hr if double boarded

it still has the issue of failure in a heated fire and will do exactley what ive posted up, its the flashover heat thats the hottest and that will melt nails and screw heads

once that plasterboard either drops from the ceiling or off the walls the insulation will set alight it will be highly toxic and the heat will be so strong

 

[Trevorleach]

I've used dehumidifiers a fair bit, at home drying cloths and at work keeping anything from damp rooms dry to areas where we store dry treats etc. (have a walk in dehydrating machine)

factory is steam cleaned daily, lots of drums of water tipped over during the day etc. etc. so very moist area

for me, the compressor units have always worked better than the desiccant type, I haven't caught the drain off water (all plumbed in) for figures to back that up, but I've had areas not kept dry enough with the desiccant type which were/are kept dry the the compressor type

only dried the desiccant type after reading so much about them being better in cold weather... It must have to be bloody cold to make a difference

plus desiccant type use what... five times the power of a compressor one?

To be honest I always thought the desiccant type dryer used much less power than the compressor type just for the sheer fact that a compressor takes a lot of power as it is a pump?

 

[minimutly]

I've used dehumidifiers a fair bit, at home drying cloths and at work keeping anything from damp rooms dry to areas where we store dry treats etc. (have a walk in dehydrating machine)

factory is steam cleaned daily, lots of drums of water tipped over during the day etc. etc. so very moist area

for me, the compressor units have always worked better than the desiccant type, I haven't caught the drain off water (all plumbed in) for figures to back that up, but I've had areas not kept dry enough with the desiccant type which were/are kept dry the the compressor type

only dried the desiccant type after reading so much about them being better in cold weather... It must have to be bloody cold to make a difference

plus desiccant type use what... five times the power of a compressor one?

Do they?
I’m genuinely interested, so will do some researching. But from my experience of running compressor ones in the workshop (the only way I’ve found to stop my machines and work getting globs of water and then rust), and in the house to keep mould and damp out, they work, and they don’t stop working when it gets cold - they might not be as efficient, but they still work.
Now, in the house (bungalow), the heat they give off is not wasted, but in the workshop it is, so maybe the desiccant type is worth a look. But I have to core drill my wall?

 

[Trevorleach]

Do they?
I’m genuinely interested, so will do some researching. But from my experience of running compressor ones in the workshop (the only way I’ve found to stop my machines and work getting globs of water and then rust), and in the house to keep mould and damp out, they work, and they don’t stop working when it gets cold - they might not be as efficient, but they still work.
Now, in the house (bungalow), the heat they give off is not wasted, but in the workshop it is, so maybe the desiccant type is worth a look. But I have to core drill my wall?

We use a dessicant one to dry the clothes in one of the spare rooms.
It has a built in water tank so no need for any holes.

Meaco dd8l

 

[rosinante]

I was considering the batts to

cut off 2-3ft of the roll use a stick to push into place

then continue with more roll as you go

another layer smaller say 2ft will give you a stagered layer and give you close to 8" close to the edge of the ceiling

its the closest you will get to bridging the wall to ceiling cold spot

if you have a layer already within your joists then once you have fitted another 2ft towards the edge turn the roll sideways and roll out across the beams

is the best way to do it

Hi , that's what I am considering , laying the batts across the ceiling joists over the already installed insulation, should still leave an air flow passage to prevent problems in loft.,
Cheers

 

[minimutly]

To be honest I always thought the desiccant type dryer used much less power than the compressor type just for the sheer fact that a compressor takes a lot of power as it is a pump?

Do you have a fridge?

 

[willie.macleod]

Now, in the house (bungalow), the heat they give off is not wasted, but in the workshop it is, so maybe the desiccant type is worth a look. But I have to core drill my wall?

You don't have to core drill your wall. If you have rooms that are kept at a higher temperature then a compressor type will be fine, but if the OP could keep his rooms at a higher temperature then the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. Inside a house with a wall cold enough to have moisture forming then you are looking at the lower end of the chart below (probably around 10 degrees) you can see from it that the desiccant model will outperform a compressor model significantly.

 

[willie.macleod]

it still has the issue of failure in a heated fire and will do exactley what ive posted up, its the flashover heat thats the hottest and that will melt nails and screw heads

once that plasterboard either drops from the ceiling or off the walls the insulation will set alight it will be highly toxic and the heat will be so strong

I give up. In a heated fire that is melting nail heads then you are dead, you would have died long before and a plasterboard ceiling falling on you is not something to worry about. When there's a fire your fire alarms go off and you get out, buildings can be replaced, people can't.

Meanwhile in the real world folk without insulated walls are burning their houses down with candles because their pre pay meter has run out.

 

[knighty]

To be honest I always thought the desiccant type dryer used much less power than the compressor type just for the sheer fact that a compressor takes a lot of power as it is a pump?

desiccant type use more power because they have a heater to dry the desiccant wheel, the little compressor doesn't use much power

 

[knighty]

Do they?
I’m genuinely interested, so will do some researching. But from my experience of running compressor ones in the workshop (the only way I’ve found to stop my machines and work getting globs of water and then rust), and in the house to keep mould and damp out, they work, and they don’t stop working when it gets cold - they might not be as efficient, but they still work.
Now, in the house (bungalow), the heat they give off is not wasted, but in the workshop it is, so maybe the desiccant type is worth a look. But I have to core drill my wall?

stich with the compressor ones you have, much easier!

 

[gaz1]

I was considering the batts to
Hi , that's what I am considering , laying the batts across the ceiling joists over the already installed insulation, should still leave an air flow passage to prevent problems in loft.,
Cheers

you will be fine as long as it resmbles this normally the 4" insulation between the ceiling joists is enough for over the first wall
the second roll is rolled out and pushed into the rafters thats more than ample enough

on some you can fit another layer ontop at the edges and it still will allow 1" of air to be in the loft space across the whole roof area its more than enough to allow air flow in the loft as a cold roof method

 

[fizzy]

The best dehumidifier I have ever used is my AGA
Seriously though it drops the humidity in the kitchen down to 40% - even when we are drying clothes in front of it and with a kettle boiling on it a lot of the time. In summer when we turn the AGA off the humidity is often up to 75% or more.

 

[addjunkie]

desiccant type use more power because they have a heater to dry the desiccant wheel, the little compressor doesn't use much power

Yes you are correct, but if you have a flooded house, that has gone mouldy, dessicant wheel every time. Itll holdthe house at an RH you pick till it driedout till the mould will brush off. A fridge one may be will take about 4 times as long

 

[knighty]

Yes you are correct, but if you have a flooded house, that has gone mouldy, dessicant wheel every time. Itll holdthe house at an RH you pick till it driedout till the mould will brush off. A fridge one may be will take about 4 times as long

I don't think it's fair to compare compressor and desiccant types like this (I've been doing it myself here too) because you can buy different power levels for each... units which are rated to remove 10litres per day or 20, or 40, or 80 etc. etc.

something different just occurred to me... do all dehumidifiers increase the air temperature as a side effect of removing moisture from it? you're removing energy from the air as it goes from wet to dry, so that has to go somewhere? - just thought of this as my compressor type warms the cupboard I use it in to dry my clothes quite a bit


also... I'd still go compressor type every time

 

[minimutly]

You don't have to core drill your wall. If you have rooms that are kept at a higher temperature then a compressor type will be fine, but if the OP could keep his rooms at a higher temperature then the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. Inside a house with a wall cold enough to have moisture forming then you are looking at the lower end of the chart below (probably around 10 degrees) you can see from it that the desiccant model will outperform a compressor model significantly.

View attachment 375117

Aaand encore pro make?
You guessed it, desiccant dehumidifiers. Hmmmph.
Let me just put this out there - all my compressor units work, one for nearly 30 years. The take enough moisture out of my workshop to stop wetting of metal surfaces, they take enough out of the house to cause my eyes to be dry in the morning. IF they are cheaper to run, then that’s good enough for me. I see no reason to change.
I might look out for a used one to try though.

 

[minimutly]

Yes you are correct, but if you have a flooded house, that has gone mouldy, dessicant wheel every time. Itll holdthe house at an RH you pick till it driedout till the mould will brush off. A fridge one may be will take about 4 times as long

Only if the house is stone cold (under 10 deg?).

 

[addjunkie]

Only if the house is stone cold (under 10 deg?).

But to properly dry out a house you need below 50% RH. And flooded house are normally cold. That is why disaster reclamation specialists use desiccant wheels.

 

[DAPPH]

you will be fine as long as it resmbles this normally the 4" insulation between the ceiling joists is enough for over the first wall
the second roll is rolled out and pushed into the rafters thats more than ample enough

on some you can fit another layer ontop at the edges and it still will allow 1" of air to be in the loft space across the whole roof area its more than enough to allow air flow in the loft as a cold roof method

View attachment 375169

The warmer home grant people surveying our bungalow took one look in my roof void and said it's all got to come out as most of it has turned to dust.
No probs friends did it for me, the under-tile fabric is a non-breathable grey plastic on both sides of a loose woven net.

No way was that going to allow the roof to breathe, so at 1500mm intervals along the seams of the fabric they slid down a flattened spring-loaded diamond of 60 mm or so wide corrugated plastic, this lifted the tiles a fraction and allowed air in or out above the fabric.

I ended up core drilling a six-inch hole at the gable ends, then popped in an air vent cover over them on the outside, slipping & sealing in some 6-inch dia. plastic pipe at each gable end to keep the cavity wall integrity.

Done to get an even better drying air flow as this was the period of longer -term drying the place out after a hidden water leak filled the foundations and came up through the floors & walls ... handy also for air drying our hams and salami

Last time I looked in the roof void it was as dry as a mummified Pharo.

The grant also gave us a 600 mm wide boarded walkway on stand offs to get about 10 mtrs from the trap door down to the solar PV controller that is fitted to one of the gable ends. The new insulation is supposed to have a 30-year warrantee if not walked or covered with boxes etc. directly on the insulation.