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julianf
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My fitted units basically look like these eaby items -
The reason that they need attention is that the syspension has partially failed, meaning that, when the trailer is loaded, the wheels tilt outward, and the tyers are wearing on the inner edge.
Without load, you probably wouldnt notice. Its not the bearings, as the wheels spin free.
The actual units are in passable condition otherwise.
So, assuming evreything matches, i can get a decent set of unbraked units, and then swap over my existing hubs onto them, right?
The reason that they need attention is that the syspension has partially failed, meaning that, when the trailer is loaded, the wheels tilt outward, and the tyers are wearing on the inner edge.
Without load, you probably wouldnt notice. Its not the bearings, as the wheels spin free.
The actual units are in passable condition otherwise.
So, assuming evreything matches, i can get a decent set of unbraked units, and then swap over my existing hubs onto them, right?
julianf
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Hmm... thats what i kind of thought, but your answer is in direct contradiction to "Scrungebob"'s above.
So, what's my best option?
Trailer is one of these sort of things -
...but,
a) not ifor williams, but probably an ex-council plant trailer
b) much more rusty (chasis is fine, sides have a few small holes, no base at all)
c) needs a new jocky wheel
Im thinking that -
£260 for the suspension units
£50 for a decent ply base
£25 for a jocky wheel
£15 for some paint
...what's that - £350?
Do i really want to spend £350, or should i scrap it and buy another - either another disposable, or double my money and get a decent unit. As i say, it cost me £80 a few years back.
I could chop the units about, as per this thread, but i want decent loading, an im loath to put in a load of effort, and fit a new base, just to find theyre as bad as they were before.
So, what's my best option?
Trailer is one of these sort of things -
...but,
a) not ifor williams, but probably an ex-council plant trailer
b) much more rusty (chasis is fine, sides have a few small holes, no base at all)
c) needs a new jocky wheel
Im thinking that -
£260 for the suspension units
£50 for a decent ply base
£25 for a jocky wheel
£15 for some paint
...what's that - £350?
Do i really want to spend £350, or should i scrap it and buy another - either another disposable, or double my money and get a decent unit. As i say, it cost me £80 a few years back.
I could chop the units about, as per this thread, but i want decent loading, an im loath to put in a load of effort, and fit a new base, just to find theyre as bad as they were before.
julianf
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Mine is 6x4. 8x4 would be nicer, in that you can get whole sheets in one, but then it takes up more space to park up at home.
So its not big-ish.
There's this on ebay for £650 buy-it-now, but the P series ifor williams are not braked, and, without brakes, you cant even carry a dumpy bag of aggregate...
So its not big-ish.
There's this on ebay for £650 buy-it-now, but the P series ifor williams are not braked, and, without brakes, you cant even carry a dumpy bag of aggregate...
Scrungebob
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Hmm... thats what i kind of thought, but your answer is in direct contradiction to "Scrungebob"'s above.
So, what's my best option?
Trailer is one of these sort of things -
...but,
a) not ifor williams, but probably an ex-council plant trailer
b) much more rusty (chasis is fine, sides have a few small holes, no base at all)
c) needs a new jocky wheel
Im thinking that -
£260 for the suspension units
£50 for a decent ply base
£25 for a jocky wheel
£15 for some paint
...what's that - £350?
Do i really want to spend £350, or should i scrap it and buy another - either another disposable, or double my money and get a decent unit. As i say, it cost me £80 a few years back.
I could chop the units about, as per this thread, but i want decent loading, an im loath to put in a load of effort, and fit a new base, just to find theyre as bad as they were before.
Sorry for not replying sooner. the thing is you need to know all the dimensions of you axels in theory you you can you just need to make sure they are going to match up. bearing in mind the amount of different makes out there.
If you can not get the right one I would cut it off plates the lots the but knew fix the trailer you have and carry on.
As has already been said you will not get a good trailer like the one you have after you have fixed it for less then £400 +
so I would fix it but that's up to you ;-)
I have a 3.5t 12ft plant, trailer off ebay, paid £350 knowing it needed some work? I have had to completely rebuild the brakes, new brake cables, and electrics including lights units a wheel bearing, new wood, mud guards plus welding, the brakes and electrics alone cost just over £350, the wood over £100 but as its not protected needs replacing will buy proper phenolic board at £100 a sheet at least three sheet.
Is it worth it, one for piece of mind I know the brakes etc are all top notch, value if I sold it, I had been looking for a fair time and £1200 - 1500 seemed a going price.
Is it worth it, one for piece of mind I know the brakes etc are all top notch, value if I sold it, I had been looking for a fair time and £1200 - 1500 seemed a going price.
Farside
Badly Welded Man
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A pouring urethane rubber for cast bushes is what occurred to me. Never used it, but seen it online somewhere a couple of years ago.Fill the tube with Sikaflex and shove the axle back in, weld the end then leave it to setI don't think they are supposed to be user serviceable items and once they have reached their finite lifespan you replace the whole thing. I wouldn't trust a trailer full of rubble not to break them again.
davey 1000
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This is a very interesting post. You see I have two pairs of what appear to be genuine Indespension Units which are brand-new-old-stock. Both pairs were bought at sales without hubs and the bigger units were a problem as not even Indespension knew what hubs would fit. Morris Oxford was the answer! The units are just painted with red oxide paint so round here they will be destroyed in a couple of years owing to "Rime" (this is salt spray from the ocean which can be sen if one uses a flashlight outdoors at night) It looks like mist or fog but it is actually salt spray! It can drift downwards, sideways and even upwards so everything outdoors gets coated.
Curiously if things are left in a Dutch Barn near the sea they will rust faster than if they were left out in the open. This is because there is no rain to wash-off the salt.
I would like to pull the units apart and get the steel parts shot blasted and hot dip galvanized. Has anyone done this? I have in the past fitted a new rubber bush into an outboard motor propeller and it was a devil of a job. One has to make a funnel that squeezes the bush smaller as it is pressed in (a large G clamp will do it)
Best regards from Davey
Curiously if things are left in a Dutch Barn near the sea they will rust faster than if they were left out in the open. This is because there is no rain to wash-off the salt.
I would like to pull the units apart and get the steel parts shot blasted and hot dip galvanized. Has anyone done this? I have in the past fitted a new rubber bush into an outboard motor propeller and it was a devil of a job. One has to make a funnel that squeezes the bush smaller as it is pressed in (a large G clamp will do it)
Best regards from Davey
davey 1000
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££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
There is a BIG BIG PROBLEM with braked trailers, its the brakes! I bought an 8 x 4 galvanized trailer from a builder near Leeds and it had no brake cables. Very naughty as he used to carry a mini-digger on it and he didn't even have the B & E on his licence; no wonder he was always in trouble with the police! I towed the empty trailer (there is a good legal loophole about taking a newly bought unladen trailer home, or to a place of repair, as legally in English Case Law if the trailer is empty it is NOT BEING USED!) The manufacturer fixed the brakes and at first the trailer was excellent. After doing several jobs the trailer was parked for about a year and then used again. It had good brakes at the start of the journey but none at the end and this caused my car to end up in the hedge on a bad bend on an unlit, unmarked country lane that was little more than a farm track. Presumably the brake drums rust when the trailer is idle. When the trailer is used again the rusted drums cause excessive wear on the brake shoes and after a few hundred miles there are no brakes left. I loathe drum brakes as unlike discs its not possible to see at a glance what they are like. Meanwhile Sod's Law is always ready to pounce. Take care!
normspanners
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When the units are made the rubber is stretched so reducing its section then frozen solid with liquid nitrogen, into long thin sticks then slipped into the box section inside corners then with the reactor square shaft pushed easily into place, the rubber is allowed to warm up and pull themselves into place.
So in fact the rubber fits itself.
So in fact the rubber fits itself.
stuvy
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Lol where did you see that norm how things are made on quest?
My suspension maker doesn't used frozen brittle/fragile rubber as liquid nitrogen makes rubber molecules go hard and forget there me worry or previous shape. When I got mine from abbey trailers I was shown how to make them from scratch and no easing in fluid or freezing is needed. Just the correct know how and accurate tooling
My suspension maker doesn't used frozen brittle/fragile rubber as liquid nitrogen makes rubber molecules go hard and forget there me worry or previous shape. When I got mine from abbey trailers I was shown how to make them from scratch and no easing in fluid or freezing is needed. Just the correct know how and accurate tooling
normspanners
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I dont understand that I'm sorry
I spoke with rosta suspension http://www.rosta.ch/en/products/rubber-suspension-technology/ many years ago for one example, but also this patent for suspension units mentions it also
[0034] Prior art torsion cartridge and axle spring assembly designs are manufactured from several metal and other material parts and assembled for operation. Use of these materials and processes required for production impose numerous manufacturing and product assembly limitations and conditions. Some materials require shotblasting or sur face conditioning in preparation for forming or processing. Some parts require attachment, such as fastening or Welding, to one another for function or operation. Rubber torsion designs typically require nitrogen freeZing to contract rubber cords for assembly, then thaW for expansion in ?nal assem bly and retention. Further, When used in application these materials require additional essentials to alloW continuous operation, such as paint coating for corrosion protection. Metals require heat treatment, draWing, straightening, and cleaning for durable performance.
The bit in red reads -----Rubber torsion designs typically require nitrogen freezing to contract rubber cords for assembly, then thaw for expansion in final assembly and retention. --------as it didnt copy and paste correctly from the patent pdf
quote from file:///C:/Users/f/Downloads/US20060022424.pdf
But maybe I got it wrong LOL ??
I found this site doing a google, I was interested in buliding a swivel axle unit with independent suspension, I figured that the spring an damper affair is too complicated, I bought indespension 2 units and cut them up and made a unit for a trial, works perfectly, I made up a press to push the reaction bar into the tube with the rubber cord. Lubricate with silicon spray and using a cone it worked fine. If anybody is interested send me a PM, I'll put up a few pics later, I'm on MkII version now totally home made.
mucklestone
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I used to make these at a low volume trailer manufacturer. Personally I would not recommend refurbishing them.
It's not rocket science, but I think people are underestimating the testing/development even low volume manufacturers put in to get these right.
Virtually any rubber cord will appear to make a working suspension unit, but getting a rubber that will carry the load without being too hard, do it in all temperatures and be safe a couple of decades or more is very hard to do. It is highly unlikely anyone will get it right first time.
There are some very skilled and intelligent people on this site who I know are more than capable of making excellent suspension units, and as a development/fun project for off road use I think it is great. But as a cost saving repair for a road trailer I personally think it is a non-starter. If the metal is that rusted the rubber will not be in great shape and most likely you will need to try a few different rubbers so the cost will go up greatly.
New suspension units and hubs start at around £100 and considering they normally last at least 20 years plus, that is hardly a big investment.
It's normally worth it financially too. The value of a used trailer is mainly based on the condition of the running gear and decent trailers don't go cheap. If you put new suspension units on a £50 trailer it is not worth £50 any more, it will be worth considerably more.
Braked suspension units cost a lot more, but then braked trailers with decent running gear fetch strong money. They only go cheap when they need work.
You also have to think what an insurance company might say if a homemade suspension fails. The liability is tremendous. For these reasons I think buying professionally made suspension units is the safer, easier and financially better option.
For those interested the lubricant used where I worked was tyre lubricant as used by tyre fitters.
It's not rocket science, but I think people are underestimating the testing/development even low volume manufacturers put in to get these right.
Virtually any rubber cord will appear to make a working suspension unit, but getting a rubber that will carry the load without being too hard, do it in all temperatures and be safe a couple of decades or more is very hard to do. It is highly unlikely anyone will get it right first time.
There are some very skilled and intelligent people on this site who I know are more than capable of making excellent suspension units, and as a development/fun project for off road use I think it is great. But as a cost saving repair for a road trailer I personally think it is a non-starter. If the metal is that rusted the rubber will not be in great shape and most likely you will need to try a few different rubbers so the cost will go up greatly.
New suspension units and hubs start at around £100 and considering they normally last at least 20 years plus, that is hardly a big investment.
It's normally worth it financially too. The value of a used trailer is mainly based on the condition of the running gear and decent trailers don't go cheap. If you put new suspension units on a £50 trailer it is not worth £50 any more, it will be worth considerably more.
Braked suspension units cost a lot more, but then braked trailers with decent running gear fetch strong money. They only go cheap when they need work.
You also have to think what an insurance company might say if a homemade suspension fails. The liability is tremendous. For these reasons I think buying professionally made suspension units is the safer, easier and financially better option.
For those interested the lubricant used where I worked was tyre lubricant as used by tyre fitters.
