Hot water fan heater

[gaz1]

I was told many years ago to set boiler thermostat to max. The reason was that the room or rad stat will cut off the boiler when room reached the desired temp. Having lower boiler temp means the room never gets warm enough for room or rad stat to turn off boiler so it ends up running all the time.

that is my comment as well

whilst boilers have a divert valve in them if the radiators are shut down once that boiler hits a temp it will shut down

so turning up the boiler to full and ignore the con of turn the boiler down to be more efficent is not true

boilers can shut down early if the system is not set right and no system is equalised correctly so some radiators wont even get to there desired temps even if other rads are shutting down

rad stat in the wrong room can also cause early shut down of the boiler even if the system is still calling for heat

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

the hotter you run the boiler the less efficient it is

and a condensing boiler can't condense if it's running over 60'C

Yes, mine is a condensing boiler so I'm trying to keep it in the most efficient temp range.

 

[Kayos]

I was told many years ago to set boiler thermostat to max. The reason was that the room or rad stat will cut off the boiler when room reached the desired temp. Having lower boiler temp means the room never gets warm enough for room or rad stat to turn off boiler so it ends up running all the time.

Flow temperature and room temperature are not the same thing.

Heating systems have a design temp, this was 80/60, then 72/61 and these days it's 55/48.

The lower flow temp and small delta increases efficiency, regardless of the heat source. But to heat a room to a comfortable temperature with a lower flow temp needs bigger radiators

I'm currently looking at some Co2 based heat pumps, great bit of kit but due to some complex reasons they run at 60/30. This requires some complex design on the outlet side. The benefit is a COP of over 4, but if the return exceeds about 35 they are unable to function correctly

 

[addjunkie]

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[northwest]

Right then, as we are on the subject. I had one of these style radiators in the workshop:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XYJ3K1F/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

But it will no longer fit as the new Tig cooler takes up the space. I have worked out a 1m x500mm Slim style oil filled can fit behind the Mill, one of these in fact:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082SXBH96/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1CAORI1L0FBRC&psc=1

Before I go ahead and buy this does anyone have any alternative suggestions?

 

[CompoSimmonite]

the hotter you run the boiler the less efficient it is

and a condensing boiler can't condense if it's running over 60'C

Our boiler is old and not condensing - just balanced flue. Don't know if that makes a difference

 

[Kayos]

Our boiler is old and not condensing - just balanced flue. Don't know if that makes a difference

Yeah, 40% or more of the energy goes straight out of the flue, regardless of the temp

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Yeah, 40% or more of the energy goes straight out of the flue, regardless of the temp

Whilst the existing boiler is trouble free the intention is to replace it shortly for a more efficient item during a kitchen refurbishment

 

[gaz1]

theres enough designs out there for window rad seats to choose from

seated radiator cover - Google Search

the hardest point is fitting a second radiator infront of it and yes you can do it the rear being the longest while the front being smaller or the rear being lower and the front set higher as you need air flow to reach the rear rad

you can do it using 1" box section and bolt the rad hangers onto it

remember its being boxed in so you wont see whats been done but it will give an output of a double rad and a single rad or double if you choose to use that + the 1" gap of hot air between the rads this will be moving hot air being fed out of the boxed in heated section

 

[JimmyS]

Flow temperature and room temperature are not the same thing.

Heating systems have a design temp, this was 80/60, then 72/61 and these days it's 55/48.

The lower flow temp and small delta increases efficiency, regardless of the heat source. But to heat a room to a comfortable temperature with a lower flow temp needs bigger radiators

I'm currently looking at some Co2 based heat pumps, great bit of kit but due to some complex reasons they run at 60/30. This requires some complex design on the outlet side. The benefit is a COP of over 4, but if the return exceeds about 35 they are unable to function correctly

Co2 as refrigerant been about for long time my old boss when I was an apprentice talked about a refrigerated ship he was on using it guessing in 60s. Issue was high suction and discharge pressures I recall. Compressors were beasts I think. Also asphyxiation risk but guess charge will be low on heat pumps. Outlet design low return temps should be what we are aiming for with most systems especially condensing boilers and District heating but often not case.

 

[Kayos]

Co2 as refrigerant been about for long time my old boss when I was an apprentice talked about a refrigerated ship he was on using it guessing in 60s. Issue was high suction and discharge pressures I recall. Compressors were beasts I think. Also asphyxiation risk but guess charge will be low on heat pumps. Outlet design low return temps should be what we are aiming for with most systems especially condensing boilers and District heating but often not case.

Very true, but we have to manage the heat load to keep the return temps, and it's usually a full mechanical upgrade with a big buffer. Compressors have shrunk a lot these days

Externally sited units or even roof mounted splits so asphyxiation risk is low, having said that these do have shutters and/or extract fans

 

[knighty]

Co2 is less efficient as a refrigerant than a lot of other gasses/refrigerants

it's being pushed out now because it doesn't screw the ozone layer like a lot of other refrigerants

I'm all for being carbon neutral and using renewable energy etc.. but the way the red tape (green tape?) is with refrigerants is a joke

if you accidently release Co2 or LPG into the air it counts as carbon neutral, because they're natural gasses - if you use a "mad made gas" - like pretty much every other refrigerant which is a mixture of gasses it sounds as man made, so it's bad for the atmosphere..... but really what's the difference? (not including the ones that actually screw the ozone layer etc.)

 

[Kayos]

Co2 is less efficient as a refrigerant than a lot of other gasses/refrigerants

it's being pushed out now because it doesn't screw the ozone layer like a lot of other refrigerants

I'm all for being carbon neutral and using renewable energy etc.. but the way the red tape (green tape?) is with refrigerants is a joke

if you accidently release Co2 or LPG into the air it counts as carbon neutral, because they're natural gasses - if you use a "mad made gas" - like pretty much every other refrigerant which is a mixture of gasses it sounds as man made, so it's bad for the atmosphere..... but really what's the difference? (not including the ones that actually screw the ozone layer etc.)

Gases are given a global warming potential GWP (another corporate TLA, sorry)

R134a is about 600, Co2 is 1.
R134a is not an ozone destroyer either

 

[knighty]

Gases are given a global warming potential GWP (another corporate TLA, sorry)

R134a is about 600, Co2 is 1.
R134a is not an ozone destroyer either

I was thinking of 404a which most of my freezers run.... GWP of 3922 (so it's being phased out now)

 

[Bornfree]

I was thinking of 404a which most of my freezers run.... GWP of 3922 (so it's being phased out now)

I know of an old chiller room still running on R12 it has a belt drive Lightfoot compressor it must be 1950s and still running.

 

[Kayos]

I know of an old chiller room still running on R12 it has a belt drive Lightfoot compressor it must be 1950s and still running.

Everyone recoils in horror at the mention of R12

I was in a meeting full of people who had used tons of the stuff, at the time no one knew

 

[addjunkie]

Everyone recoils in horror at the mention of R12

I was in a meeting full of people who had used tons of the stuff, at the time no one knew

That covers most things weve learnt over the years!

 

[Bornfree]

R12 may have been a little unfriendly for the environment but it was a brilliant refrigerant

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Ended up buying an Ultraheat triple radiator that will go beneath the window. Hopefully that will put out sufficient heat to run the boiler at a lower temp and thus more efficient.

 

[gaz1]

a 1000x300 or a 1000x400 tripple rad

looks to be the the first 1000x300