Having a laugh at a scammer

[TurtleDude]

I have heard a lot about the buyers on ebay claiming the goods never arrived if they were sent 'not signed for' in which case PayPal take the money back off you.

90% off ebay buys I've done I've collected in person, since it seemed better that way. In many cases I'd paid in advance on PayPal, once I had an address should things get ugly.

 

[skotl]

You seem to know a lot about how this works Mr Skotl!

I always thought you were such a nice boy too!

Only cos I'm on the other side of the scammers

 

[skotl]

I have heard a lot about the buyers on ebay claiming the goods never arrived if they were sent 'not signed for' in which case PayPal take the money back off you.

90% off ebay buys I've done I've collected in person, since it seemed better that way. In many cases I'd paid in advance on PayPal, once I had an address should things get ugly.

Indeed. That's a much more straightforward scam - if you don't send the goods as "signed-for" then you're at risk here.

TBH, though, I think this is more an opportunist's rip-off rather than an organised scam-group. It's a lowlife who receives something (s)he didn't sign for and decides to get their money back. That's a question of faith and trust, though. Hopefully, these opportunist gits are a very small minority of buyers.

I have bought and sold probably around 1,000 items on ebay in the last ten years and have never been ripped off. However, I have been targeted by literally dozens of scammers and I just delete their emails. So if I wasn't diligent then I could have lost a decent amount of money.

 

[TechnicAl]

Paypal has an iron-clad guarantee for buyers.
You'd think this would be a good thing, right?

So how the scam works is that an army of hackers (mainly from Eastern Europe, Africa, Russia and China) "harvest" stolen paypal accounts and sell them onto these scammers. There's nothing massively complex about hacking the paypal accounts; they will start with a list of 1 million accounts and simply try common passwords against each one; "password", "paypal", the user's email address, the user's email address normalised (e.g. if your paypal account is "fred.bloggs@thing.com" then try "fred", "bloggs", "fredbloggs", etc).

For each million paypal accounts they might get ten that they can break into and these go to the scammers.

Fast-forward; ebay/email/my phone is broken/bargain/send you the money/money appears in your paypal account...

Why would you think there was any problem? The guy said he'd send you £400 and your paypal balance is now £400 to the good.
So you ship the unit.

Or they "overpaid" and sent you £500 accidentally. No problem, you wire them £100 back.

All good!

4 weeks later the rightful owner of the paypal account gets his bank statement, realises he's been ripped off, and complains to Paypal. Paypal immediately refund the money directly from your account to his! Check the T&Cs you signed up to with Paypal - you must supply a bank account or credit card and they are entitled to retrieve money from that account. To be fair, they are in the right, because the money you received was stolen.

That's how the scam works - you either ship the goods and never see them again (which is actually far more complex for the scammers, as they have to receive and re-sell them) or you get over-paid and you send them cash. Bear in mind that Paypal protection doesn't help you in the latter case cos you transferred the money to a hacked account, the bad guys took the money in cash, and you have no comeback on the genuine owner of that account, as he was the original victim in all this.

Wow............and I thought PayPal was safe

must change my password

 

[TurtleDude]

Wow............and I thought PayPal was safe

must change my password

Another thing to bear in mind..if buying goods (tools etc) costing lots of money online, I have previously opted for the security of PayPal (funded by a credit card).

I thought (wrongly) this was the safest thing to do because I would have protection from PayPal, and my credit card if there was a problem. Plus I don't like shops having my card details after a bad experience.

It transpires that if using PayPal you waive your normal credit card protection, since the payer is PayPal on your behalf, and they don't have the same clout.


Buyer beware. I now use a card for online purchases that may need returning, and so should you.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Another of their common tricks is the photo request:

If you are selling an expensive watch/phone/camera etc, they will ask you for a close up photo sent to their email, when you do this they then have your email addy.

A day later you will get a paypal email saying full payment has been made and send to wherever, these mails are a work of art and anyone unaware will think it is genuine, so you send the phone and it's only when you bother to actually check your account sometime later you realise there is no payment listed.

It used to be done from abroad mostly but because a lot of sellers now avoid sending abroad it has been known for the scammer to rent a flat in the UK, send off hundreds if not thousands of these scam hits, rake in the goods over a week or two and then vanish.

 

[Richard.]

The experience I've had has been different . They send you the fabricated PayPal website inc notification that they have paid. You sign into that fabricated site with login details and bang they have your details.

 

[Richard.]

Another of their common tricks is the photo request:

If you are selling an expensive watch/phone/camera etc, they will ask you for a close up photo sent to their email, when you do this they then have your email addy.

A day later you will get a paypal email saying full payment has been made and send to wherever, these mails are a work of art and anyone unaware will think it is genuine, so you send the phone and it's only when you bother to actually check your account sometime later you realise there is no payment listed.

It used to be done from abroad mostly but because a lot of sellers now avoid sending abroad it has been known for the scammer to rent a flat in the UK, send off hundreds if not thousands of these scam hits, rake in the goods over a week or two and then vanish.

I had this very same thing Happen to me except I checked my account to swap my funds over to acc. Your not wrong the email is a work of art

 

[Richard.]

If you check your paypal does it say theyve paid?

I didnt know anything about this..........Im a bit naive

No, if you actually login to PayPal and check you'll see they haven't.
The scammers send you an email from "PayPal " as Steve says it looks so legit that would have no reason no to believe it.
This email usually States
................ Has sent you a payment of £600.
Then depending on what they want To steel from you, you will either be given the address to send the item too. Or a payPal login page to give them your details to.

 

[Bill Edwards]

TechnicAl,

If in doubt, you can normally check these things by logging into your account. However, you must never follow any links in an e-mail - open your web browser and go the website from there.
This applies to most things, not just PayPal.
Also, whenever you enter your log in details on anything that should be secure (PayPal, bank, paying by card etc) look at the website address, it should begin with https - if the s isn't there, don't enter your details.

 

[eSCHEn]

^^^ Good advice Bill.

 

[Richard.]

Nope the safest way to sell your item is via cash on collection and contact through telephone
May take abit longer but at least you know where you stand.
I put on my high value items.
No email, no PayPal
This basically tells the scammers I know where you'll try to pull one. A legit buyer will then pick up the phone and you can then make any arrangement needed.

 

[skotl]

Wow............and I thought PayPal was safe

must change my password

Good - that means it helped

Make sure you pick a relatively secure password - no names, birthdays, etc.

A good tip is to make up a phrase that you'll remember and use that in each password. For example "My first car was a hillman avenger" so begin each password with "MFCWAHA" - that's pretty much impossible to hack by guessing.

The bad guys use lists containing millions of words and combinations of words to "brute force" attacks on passwords. The obvious ones like "password" are in these lists but so are "password123", "passw0rd", "zxc123" and all the other combinations that people think are unique to them. Have a look here; http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/20/is-your-password-on-this-list-of-2014s-worst-passwords/

 

[cumbriasteve]

A good tip is to make up a phrase that you'll remember and use that in each password. For example "My first car was a hillman avenger" so begin each password with "MFCWAHA" - that's pretty much impossible to hack by guessing.

That's no good, mine was a Ford Pop so I would keep getting it wrong

Seriously though:...That's an excellent password method, add perhaps a memorable number after it and as you say...about as good as you can get.

 

[TechnicAl]

Thanks guys I will heed that advice

Just to demonstrate how bad I am at these things

We are going to France for a few weeks and I wanted to get some TV so I can see the news etc. I read that you can buy this USB thingy to plug into your laptop and get TV. So the other day off I go Maplins and they advised that I would be wasting my money.......so I forget the idea

This morning my youngest comes round to see us. Im telling him and he says "why are you messing with that when youve got SKY GO EXTRA"

I now have TV on my laptop and I can connect via wifi in France........wait and see.......knowing me I will cock it up

 

[Richard.]

Shame thats a breach of eBay T&Cs, refusal to accept paypal (or other "eBay Approved" methods) or even discouraging is a grounds for listing removal and they will do it..

No it's not!! You can still use the eBay system pay the eBay fees but declare your item as cash on collection. Local pick up is an eBay option and your still able to mark the item as paid for. I frequently put my items as cash on collection only and still pay my eBay fees when it's sold. Never had an issue. eBay have a problem if you agree to do the transaction outside of eBay to avoid the fee. Ie accept the buy now price, end the listing and sell it any way.

 

[Richard.]

Check it out then
View attachment 68864

Paypal being the #1 accepted method of payment and is non disabable...

Mr fuzzy. I can assure you cash on collection is an acceptable eBay method. If it wasn't they would be editing a lot of listings that say Cash on collect only. Once the item is sold ie it goes full term or someone hits the buy button eBay then send you the bill for the % fee. They couldn't care less how it's paid for so long as they get their fee. If you agree with the buyer to end the listing and sell it to them to avoid the fee this is against eBay policy.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Cash on collection is acceptable but stating it is the only method of payment in a listing is against the T&C of Ebay and will get the listing removed, you have to offer paypal except for vehicle sales

Lot's of listings don't get pulled because ebay have a very poorly manned checking system and rely heavily on reported listings.

 

[Richard.]

Ok well I've often said no PayPal and will continue to do so on high value items. I can't see it to be a problem so long as eBay get their cut.

 

[roofman]

Ok well I've often said no PayPal and will continue to do so on high value items. I can't see it to be a problem so long as eBay get their cut.

less of a problem now Ebay and paypal have ended there marriage or are ending....ive sold 2 items in as many days and stated on 2 listings cash on collection please