H&S is 90% Ballcocks

[Robotstar5]

I thought PUWER 98 regulations meant any machine tool had to stop within 10 secs & if not be fitted with a brake.
At college we scrapped a hardly used Arboga mill drill because in bottom gear it took 12 seconds to stop! I offered to scrap it for them & course it now lives in my workshop, Every cloud & all that!

Depends if you have access to it, I installed a robot with a routing head which took the best part of 20 seconds to run down, the solution was interlocked guarding that would not open for 25 seconds after request to give the router time to run down before it would let you in

 

[Morrisman]

In the 80's a Ford maintenance guy managed to trap himself by driving a robot into him, the robot was in manual mode and the guy had moved the joystick on the teach pendant to move the robot. Ford approached ASEA and asked them to provide software to prevent this happening again, how do you write software to prevent someone driving a robot into themselves?

They have to be seen to be 'doing something' to prevent it happening again.

Insurance companies hover around looking for any excuse not to pay out, which is what the whole modern safety movement is all about: saving money, not saving lives.

 

[minimutly]

They have to be seen to be 'doing something' to prevent it happening again.

Insurance companies hover around looking for any excuse not to pay out, which is what the whole modern safety movement is all about: saving money, not saving lives.

Sorry, I disagree with this. Ultimately they are one and the same, but few companies these days could live with the stigma of harming its employees, and not many employees would put up with it either.
We have come a long way in 40 odd years. The last 25 seeing the most change in my opinion.
Not so long ago we had thick, useless people who couldn’t do their own job pushed into being the H&S guy, now we are empowered to think and work safely, without resorting to the thicko - who hopefully has been retired and someone more sensible and knowledgable employed in his place..

 

[Farside]

Well, arsenic is the colourant. Many people died, or were invalided due to arsenic poisoning in their own living roome. That were decorated with Wm. Morris wallpaper. That leached arsenic into the air.

Well, on the bright side, it got rid of Napoleon, and I'm sure he was a bit green at the end.

 

[Morrisman]

Sorry, I disagree with this. Ultimately they are one and the same, but few companies these days could live with the stigma of harming its employees, and not many employees would put up with it either.
We have come a long way in 40 odd years. The last 25 seeing the most change in my opinion.
Not so long ago we had thick, useless people who couldn’t do their own job pushed into being the H&S guy, now we are empowered to think and work safely, without resorting to the thicko - who hopefully has been retired and someone more sensible and knowledgable employed in his place..

When I first joined the oil field industry, September 1992, day one on our first offshore training course, the instructor bellowed out across the class the question I have remembered ever since: "Why are you people here?"

He was a huge Canadian guy, part of the Alert Disaster Control training company in Singapore. Everything he said was at 100 decibels.

Anyway, he explained why and wherefore of exactly why safety training had become such a big thing in the very recent past. And that insurance companies had forced employers such as ours to get their act together with health and safety offshore, or they would refuse to cover them. It all revolved around the horrendous Pipe Alpha disaster 5 years earlier, with 167 lives lost. That accident, and the resulting inquiry, changed the face of health and safety across the globe.

The attitude towards H&S has changed immensely since those days, but that first week on the Alert training barge in Singapore training was an eye opener. I'm sure there will be a couple of guys here who remember it, moored in Loyang supply base.

 

[Stupoty]

It's possible for any & all of us to have a dumb moment. A bit of added safety is no bad thing.

I've never had a dumb moment ! ....



Dumb day , couple of days , week , month, year, life maybe but moment ?



Stu

 

[W.olly]

For a person to put in H&S requirements at work, do they need any qualifications or the likes ?

 

[roofman]

For a person to put in H&S requirements at work, do they need any qualifications or the likes ?

Thumbs or toes missing gets the job done faster

 

[addjunkie]

For a person to put in H&S requirements at work, do they need any qualifications or the likes ?

Nope

 

[Maker]

As for you lot with the simply chuck key safety switches . . . I've got a spare key . . . or a bit of bent metal that fits . . .

I spotted an RFID interlock the other day, that would be much harder to spoof (Though not impossible if you're determined). But even if you built an RFID tag into a chuck key to make some sort of lathe interlock, someone could just leave the special key by the sensor and buy a new key if they really wanted to leave one in the chuck.

I just thought the RFID thing was interesting, a bit more secure than the usual microswitch or reed switch. Allen-Bradley Sensaguard if anyone wants one to play with, bargain at 200 quid.

 

[tom2207]

try this ,,,,

bypass the safety features ,,, pick up your p45

simples .

 

[mike os]

Do t even wait we’ll Post it to you

 

[bricol]

try this ,,,,

bypass the safety features ,,, pick up your p45

simples .

Pretty much what happens in our places.

Even such things as seatbelts in forklifts . . its pain to fasten, refasten as you get in and out a lot . . . wasn't really thought of as much of an issue, although required, compared to say forklifts running over people . . .until one tipped over in a plant in South America . . . fell on the guys head as he fell out . . . approximately 91.74% of him was perfectly fine . . the 8.26% of him that made up his head was 100% not . . . that then worked back to him racing another forklift and going off-road . . . procedures and training that he signed he had completed, read, and understood, specifically say do neither . . . so several layers of ignoring the safety rules in place . . .

Darwinism you say? Doesn't help the family . . . or the poor **** who finds him and has to shovel him up.

There are always people who simply don't see the danger (I've always done it, my dad always did it, never harmed him . . ), don't know how the machine works so can't see the danger, or simply want to save time to either read the paper, or get somewhere quicker.

And sometimes a certain set of circumstances occur that you, as a design engineer, never thought of, if you don't immediately learn from it and fix it . . . The problem sometimes of course, is you look at it from an engineers perspective, with all the years of experience of not getting hurt, so you don't always think of the stupid things people do - you need others to come and have a look too.

 

[tom2207]

- you need others to come and have a look too.


Totally correct ,, but ideally not someone with a shiny asre in their trousers and no idea. In the ents game I have come across so many experts and most wouldnt know a truss from a turnip ... still you do the walk round and show them the double or triple fail safes in place , etc etc ,,, and they ask some stupid question about something non related , then sign off the safety inspection ... hey ho.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Strange really and perhaps it explains why I despise H&S nazis... When I am doing any job, I am always thinking ahead and thinking what will be the result of my next actions. It is a sort of automatic process, like driving I suppose.
It just seems alien to me that I should have (really; an 18 year old female desk jockey) come out and tell me how to use a ladder. That was the Police contract and it was the last time we did any work for them. Luckily I am in the position where I don't need to worry about sacking customers.

 

[bricol]

We've had some interesting H&S managers - when one of them went full board at Her Majesties pleasure, a full set of fully completed safety checks were found for all our machine tools . . .including the ones scrapped before he started . . .

The replacement, a young French lady, was excellent - took the time to ask, watch and discuss - things improved. She of course got head-hunted to bigger and better things . . . the next . . . well, she's moved on to another company and that's all we'll say about her . . . The new one, due to home working, I've not had any dealings with - she will have had her work cut out as we've had several BIG holes chopped in our shop floor, entire departments shifting buildings and sites, and several million quid of machining centres being installed over this year. I've not actually heard anything bad, and as we have high number of whinging twits, me included, that must mean she's either doing a good job . . . or not come out of the office.

 

[AKN]

My favourite memory of Tring was having lunch in the cafe, it was a sandwich, a cream cake and a doughnut. It was the school holidays and there were lots of nice middle class mums there with their children. I heard one child whine to its parent about not being allowed a cream cake and a doughnut when I was allowed to. I was probably in my mid 40s at the time.

Did you try the microbrewery?

 

[dobbslc]

We get a lot of Tring ales round here but they're not great

 

[cheb]

No, I was driving.

 

[mtt.tr]

If you take it further in industry you gradually evolve towards the methodology pilots use on commercial flights, procedure and everything is double checked using a check list, not matter how many times they have done it. By doing this everyone does a task the same way too, so swapping team members between shifts for example shouldnt be an issue as in theory all folk do the task the same way.

I'm trying to implement this at work, especially with safety inspections everyone starts in the same place and finishes in the same place.

This week's I have found 2 brake issues that could have been serious, some of these pull stacked loaded containers.



I have no issues with HS can't say I've ever felt infringed by it either. I have stepped in recently to stop an "experienced" guy dropping a 300kg gbox onto himself, this happened as procedures where not followed.