first tig welds

[BrokenBiker]

so, my steel filler rod and pack of consumables arrived today so had an hour having a proper go at figuring it out.

ran 2 beads on some ally to just check the AC side of things, that works fine. no idea what grade ally it is, just sold as 'raw aluminium' in B&Q. second bead cracked right through as i was welding, not surprising but still, the AC works, as does the frequency and AC balance adjustment.

after that i went back to mild steel. better than i expected results, but obviously far from being a pro.

setting were:

100-120 amps
base amps 50, upslope 1 sec, downslope 1 sec, 6 sec post gas
5mm steel
no.5 cup
2.5 lanthanated tungsten
5lpm argon

first pic i had a few runs with no filler to get to grips with arc legnth. dipped it straight away as soon as the arc lit, obviosuly so shrapened and carried on. after a few beads tried adding some filler with varying results. these were all at 100 amps and i think i was holding too tight of an arc as the puddle didnt really grow nearly as wide as i was expecting and it was very difficult to add filler without hitting the tungsten, and i dipped it more often than i didnt.

dipped it on the last dab so changed the tungsten and just ran a few more over the top of the existing beads, but bumped the amps up to 115 and tried to focus more on a slightly longer arc so i had space to get the filler in to the puddle.

the top 4 beads are the higher amps, bottom 3 were from the previous attempt. happier with these, they have better penetration (i wasnt aiming for full penetration, but on the first few it didnt seem to be biting in, on these few the back of the steel was glowing) and a bit easier to see what was happening and control it a bit better. still nowhere near perfect, but better

stopped to let everything cool and grab a cuppa, then decided as it was bitterly cold and frankly i was getting bored of sharpening tungstens (links for electric tungsten grinders would be lovely) i thought id go for broke and try an actual joint. dont know what i was thinking though as i positioned it all wrong so was welding towards myself at a 45, rather than right to left the way i had practiced so was massively uncomfortable, wrist was rigid and the filler was rubbing on the side of my welding mask just to get it somewhere near the puddle...all in all a stupid idea but im good at those so kept it as it was and had a go. probably could have dropped the amps back down to 100, maybe a bit less as its only 2.5mm thick.

that said, its stuck and it aint coming off...it aint pretty, but neither am i.

i did also try the pulse settings, but only ran 1 bead as again just wanted to check it worked. set it to 1 pulse per second, 100 amps peak, 30 amps base and the duty (i assume that is the 'on time') at 50%. it worked, but it was during the stupidly tight arc phase and i think i was dipping it every time it dropped to base amps.

all in all, i learned a bit, had some fun, my torch hand is a lot steadier now and feel like i have gotten the very basics sort of down. a lot to learn, but ive got a lot of time.

still cant get over how quiet and calm it is on DC

 

[Morrisman]

Looks very much like my first attempts. You’re right, it’s such a quiet and dignified way to weld.
Practice is the key, and watching instructional videos. I never really carried on practicing much, I’ve found my hands are a bit shakey to get particularly neat looking welds.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Looks very much like my first attempts. You’re right, it’s such a quiet and dignified way to weld.
Practice is the key, and watching instructional videos. I never really carried on practicing much, I’ve found my hands are a bit shakey to get particularly neat looking welds.

ive been watching a lot of videos from 6061, the fabrication series and this old tony. tried to put what they have said into practice. practice is definitely key though. i have plenty of time to get half decent at it. all my upcoming projects can very easilly be done with a stick welder or the mig and as im better at both those processes i would likely pick them over tig anyway at the moment.

still, its very rewarding to lif the mask and the see the weld when its gone well

 

[roofman]

I understand TIG for ally and exotic metals but for mild steel there seems to be a lot of faffing about to reach the same goal as dragging the MIG out and just go.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I understand TIG for ally and exotic metals but for mild steel there seems to be a lot of faffing about to reach the same goal as dragging the MIG out and just go.

i see what you mean, but steel is cheap and i have an abundance to practice with

 

[Woody.v8]

so, my steel filler rod and pack of consumables arrived today so had an hour having a proper go at figuring it out.

ran 2 beads on some ally to just check the AC side of things, that works fine. no idea what grade ally it is, just sold as 'raw aluminium' in B&Q. second bead cracked right through as i was welding, not surprising but still, the AC works, as does the frequency and AC balance adjustment.

View attachment 479349

View attachment 479350

after that i went back to mild steel. better than i expected results, but obviously far from being a pro.

setting were:

100-120 amps
base amps 50, upslope 1 sec, downslope 1 sec, 6 sec post gas
5mm steel
no.5 cup
2.5 lanthanated tungsten
5lpm argon

first pic i had a few runs with no filler to get to grips with arc legnth. dipped it straight away as soon as the arc lit, obviosuly so shrapened and carried on. after a few beads tried adding some filler with varying results. these were all at 100 amps and i think i was holding too tight of an arc as the puddle didnt really grow nearly as wide as i was expecting and it was very difficult to add filler without hitting the tungsten, and i dipped it more often than i didnt.

View attachment 479351

dipped it on the last dab so changed the tungsten and just ran a few more over the top of the existing beads, but bumped the amps up to 115 and tried to focus more on a slightly longer arc so i had space to get the filler in to the puddle.

View attachment 479352

the top 4 beads are the higher amps, bottom 3 were from the previous attempt. happier with these, they have better penetration (i wasnt aiming for full penetration, but on the first few it didnt seem to be biting in, on these few the back of the steel was glowing) and a bit easier to see what was happening and control it a bit better. still nowhere near perfect, but better

stopped to let everything cool and grab a cuppa, then decided as it was bitterly cold and frankly i was getting bored of sharpening tungstens (links for electric tungsten grinders would be lovely) i thought id go for broke and try an actual joint. dont know what i was thinking though as i positioned it all wrong so was welding towards myself at a 45, rather than right to left the way i had practiced so was massively uncomfortable, wrist was rigid and the filler was rubbing on the side of my welding mask just to get it somewhere near the puddle...all in all a stupid idea but im good at those so kept it as it was and had a go. probably could have dropped the amps back down to 100, maybe a bit less as its only 2.5mm thick.

View attachment 479354

that said, its stuck and it aint coming off...it aint pretty, but neither am i.

i did also try the pulse settings, but only ran 1 bead as again just wanted to check it worked. set it to 1 pulse per second, 100 amps peak, 30 amps base and the duty (i assume that is the 'on time') at 50%. it worked, but it was during the stupidly tight arc phase and i think i was dipping it every time it dropped to base amps.

all in all, i learned a bit, had some fun, my torch hand is a lot steadier now and feel like i have gotten the very basics sort of down. a lot to learn, but ive got a lot of time.

still cant get over how quiet and calm it is on DC

Try adding some filler to the autogenous aluminium runs to get more of a feel for it.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Try adding some filler to the autogenous aluminium runs to get more of a feel for it.

thats the plan when filler arrives. the beads in the first pics were just to make sure the AC side worked and to determine whther the AC balance was actually AC balance

i think the bulk of my tig welding is going to either be steel thats a bit thinner than id like with the mig, or repairs in alu. ive been asked in the past if i can do various alu repairs for mates but have never had the equipment for it. once ive got a bit of practice in i may take the next one on that comes form a friend that understands im not a pro. ive done a fair bit of welding on his z4 for mots and fixed his ebay chinese stainless exhaust twice when a mount snapped and then again when a weld split...migging it probably wasnt the ideal solution but its still holding nearly 4k miles later. he has grand illusions of putting a turbo on it so i daresay there will be a question of intercooler piping when he finds out ive got this

 

[JOEPRO]

Have you got a decent auto darkening mask yeah? I found my TIG game improved quite a bit when I got myself a true colour mask and adjusted it so I could clearly see the weld pool. My old tired welding mask was pants in comparison.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Have you got a decent auto darkening mask yeah? I found my TIG game improved quite a bit when I got myself a true colour mask and adjusted it so I could clearly see the weld pool. My old tired welding mask was pants in comparison.

yeah ive got a SIP true colour auto dark. was using cheap ebay ones up until alst year when the one i was using died on me mid weld so ran to screwfix, got this one and its worlds different to the ebay ones.

a tthe moment i think im still in the 'trying to look at too much' phase. i can see everything, but im trying to watch my arc length, the pudle width, the root of the weld, where the filler is, where ti needs to go etc...none of it has become subconcious yet but im sure i will get there

 

[Memmeddu]

Hope to be helpful trying to explain what I've learned myself in 3 years of Tig welding.
I'm not a welder but my trade involves the use of all the welding processes (I'm a machinist)
I've never understood exactly what causes aluminum welds to fail unless there's a crater left.
It happened to me only once really, I was working on a aluminum trailer frame and it was huge, impossible to preheat and really thick material susceptible to lots of flexion etc...
So
Frequency affect the arc in various ways
But overall what you really want to know is that lower frequencies cause the puddle to spread creating a bigger and hotter puddle, with higher frequencies you obtain a narrower puddle and potentially a longer arc up on what you are trying to achieve.
Penetration depends more on current than frequency but lower frequencies kinda work better because you are stressing a lot less the machine.
Said that frequency can be adjusted to "save" the tungsten, as higher frequencies reduce the tendency to melt it.
I mostly weld using high currents ranging from 100 to 240A on car rims and cylinder heads.
I stick with 50 to 60Hz
Using 2.4mm purple or 3.2 green tungsten
#6 or #8 pink cups.
Smaller stuff I use 2 or 1.6mm green tungsten or I sharpen the 2.4mm to get a small ball point.
65 to 80Hz at most for the kind of jobs I do work for me.
Small build ups, rebuild missing bits from castings, automotive air conditioning pipes those kind of things.
In those cases higher frequencies allow you to have more control because tendentially the arc starts to wander everywhere at lower currents.
So the frequency is your only friend to focus the arc where needed.

AC Balance is exactly what sounds like.
It adjusts the balance between positive and negative.
On the unit I use at work (Saf Fro prestotig 350W) it's expressed in negative percentage but on many units it's meant to be always a positive value.
What works better for me is between 40 and 30% positive (reads 60 to 70 on the machine)
But you can use an excess of positive to speed up the making of the ball point on the tip of your tungsten.
What it does exactly is cleaning up your material breaking the oxide layer, increase penetration (higher the positive deeper the penetration) and make the impurities boil to the top of the weld.
With smaller tungstens you cannot use much positive balance otherwise it would melt or explode contaminating the puddle with tungsten and it's an huge problem if you are going to file or machine the welds later.

On the practice all the parameters combined are crucial to get good results and you have to practice make adjustments to find what works better for you.
I can make those adjustments on the fly because I weld aluminum practically everyday but there's only one thing that doesn't change 10 litres per minute gas flow that's mandatory, lower than that and you'll get porosity, higher it will drag air and you guess it porosity.
There's a lot to talk about but we should proceed step by step.
I think it's a good input for starting to understand what works better for you and your jobs

 

[BrokenBiker]

Hope to be helpful trying to explain what I've learned myself in 3 years of Tig welding.
I'm not a welder but my trade involves the use of all the welding processes (I'm a machinist)
I've never understood exactly what causes aluminum welds to fail unless there's a crater left.
It happened to me only once really, I was working on a aluminum trailer frame and it was huge, impossible to preheat and really thick material susceptible to lots of flexion etc...
So
Frequency affect the arc in various ways
But overall what you really want to know is that lower frequencies cause the puddle to spread creating a bigger and hotter puddle, with higher frequencies you obtain a narrower puddle and potentially a longer arc up on what you are trying to achieve.
Penetration depends more on current than frequency but lower frequencies kinda work better because you are stressing a lot less the machine.
Said that frequency can be adjusted to "save" the tungsten, as higher frequencies reduce the tendency to melt it.
I mostly weld using high currents ranging from 100 to 240A on car rims and cylinder heads.
I stick with 50 to 60Hz
Using 2.4mm purple or 3.2 green tungsten
#6 or #8 pink cups.
Smaller stuff I use 2 or 1.6mm green tungsten or I sharpen the 2.4mm to get a small ball point.
65 to 80Hz at most for the kind of jobs I do work for me.
Small build ups, rebuild missing bits from castings, automotive air conditioning pipes those kind of things.
In those cases higher frequencies allow you to have more control because tendentially the arc starts to wander everywhere at lower currents.
So the frequency is your only friend to focus the arc where needed.

AC Balance is exactly what sounds like.
It adjusts the balance between positive and negative.
On the unit I use at work (Saf Fro prestotig 350W) it's expressed in negative percentage but on many units it's meant to be always a positive value.
What works better for me is between 40 and 30% positive (reads 60 to 70 on the machine)
But you can use an excess of positive to speed up the making of the ball point on the tip of your tungsten.
What it does exactly is cleaning up your material breaking the oxide layer, increase penetration (higher the positive deeper the penetration) and make the impurities boil to the top of the weld.
With smaller tungstens you cannot use much positive balance otherwise it would melt or explode contaminating the puddle with tungsten and it's an huge problem if you are going to file or machine the welds later.

On the practice all the parameters combined are crucial to get good results and you have to practice make adjustments to find what works better for you.
I can make those adjustments on the fly because I weld aluminum practically everyday but there's only one thing that doesn't change 10 litres per minute gas flow that's mandatory, lower than that and you'll get porosity, higher it will drag air and you guess it porosity.
There's a lot to talk about but we should proceed step by step.
I think it's a good input for starting to understand what works better for you and your jobs

that was quite an interesting read and some very good information, thanks.

i suspect my weld cracked though as it was a slightly too hot bead with no filler. i saw the crack opening up as i was welding but as it had no bearing on anything i decided to see the run out, then melted the end away as i didnt taper off in time.

i have some 4043 filler on its way so when that arrives i will be having a good go at the aluminium, its a strip of 50x3mm and about a meter long so think i will cut it into 100mm coupons and spend some time padding beads, maybe some butt welds, lap joints etc, just messing around really, i find thats the best way i learn

 

[Popcorn]

It's cracked 'coz it's most properly non weldable alloy......

 

[BrokenBiker]

It's cracked 'coz it's most properly non weldable alloy......

No idea, to be honest I know certain grades of weldable alloy crack without filler. It's never going to amount to anything other than practice stock though so if it wasn't to crack when I use filler it's not the end of the world

 

[BrokenBiker]

Not the most consistent, but first actual joint in ally after quite a few practice beads on the other side.

3mm unidentified ally flat bar
100 amps peak, 35 amp taper off
120hz
2.5mm 4043 filler

It's stronger than I expected it to be.

Main thing i learnt though is, good God the puddle will run away from you the second you hesitate...first bead started about 6mm, ended about 15mm...quickly realised that without a foot pedal you really need to get on it with the travel speed. Once I got to grips with that it got a bit easier to keep the puddle width roughly the same all the way through

 

[Munkul]

you are very quickly getting the hang of this

I especially like the fact that you've not immediately said "I need a foot pedal" and learned to adjust your travel speed to compensate. It saves a lot of faff if you can do it that way.
I think for you now it's just keep practicing.

 

[Morrisman]

Main thing i learnt though is, good God the puddle will run away from you the second you hesitate...first bead started about 6mm, ended about 15mm...quickly realised that without a foot pedal you really need to get on it with the travel speed. Once I got to grips with that it got a bit easier to keep the puddle width roughly the same all the way through

That’s probably the most important advice I got early on: keep moving, don’t hang about. I was dawdling along, on low power, letting the weld pool develop, and basically burning the bejesus out of everything with too much heat soak. More power, more speed, and very different results.

 

[BrokenBiker]

you are very quickly getting the hang of this

I especially like the fact that you've not immediately said "I need a foot pedal" and learned to adjust your travel speed to compensate. It saves a lot of faff if you can do it that way.
I think for you now it's just keep practicing.

It's funny because I was going to buy the foot pedal with the welder but it was out of stock from the seller I used so I thought ah, it won't hurt, I've got upslope, down slope and pulse settings...

Then I started on the ally and all thought of letting go of the button and letting it ramp down a bit went out the window

But to be fair, moving faster and dipping filler faster wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...only got the tungsten twice this time

Will be getting more practice in as and when I can. Only bought 50 lengths of 4043 rod but can see me needing more soon.

Still weird going back to dc and 1, it being so quiet and 2 the weld puddle not spreading out like a spilt drink

 

[BrokenBiker]

That’s probably the most important advice I got early on: keep moving, don’t hang about. I was dawdling along, on low power, letting the weld pool develop, and basically burning the bejesus out of everything with too much heat soak. More power, more speed, and very different results.

Yes, I noticed on the steel beads I tried again after the ally, more amps, faster speed and quicker dabs seemed to result in way less heat zone around the weld and a bit of a better profile

I did however almost cook my torch/lead...wp17 at 180 amps didn't stay happy for very long so think I may need a 26 torch soon...shame as I've just ordered another wp17 flex torch

 

[BrokenBiker]

These were a few of the many practice beads I did on flat stock before attempting the joint...i did also manage to weld up the crack that formed when I tried an autogenous weld on this bar last week. No cracks at all that I can see on any of the welds

And a few i tried on some 8mm cold rolled i had laying about, think these were a mix of 130, 150 and 180 amps until the torch lead got too hot and I notice smoke coming out the cup

Still a fair way to go with regards to consistency.

Fancy having a go with some stainless soon as well, see how that goes

 

[BrokenBiker]

So been doing most of what I need to do with stick the last few days, and my tig has just been lay wire to simply get a good strong joint.

Had to make a little piece just now that consisted of 2 bits of 5mm, spaced 50mm apart, with a bit of 5mm bridging the gap...basically 2 edge lap welds is what I'm calling them. Tacked up with a stick welder by my father, not fantastic fit up but that's life.

First go was the side with the gap, came out surprisingly better than I expected given I was standing, crouched over a vice, nothing to support my hands.

Was told not to run right to the edges but I can't see why not, but do as I'm told.

Second side had a good fit up and I decided to get one of my big locking welding clamps on the vice to give myself somewhere to prop my torch hand. Better consistency with the torch but not with the filler I don't feel, still looks like a stick weld to me, although i realised during this weld that i was sub conciously feeding the filler with every dab whihc i wasnt doing before. not really sure whan that started as i had no intention of doing it really. full penetration so cant complain. Bit of wind at the end caused a bit of porosity I think. The steel was cleaner than it looked

It's not structural, just sits over a bit of falt bar in order to let it slide along a bench as part of a grinding jig I'm making but he insisted he wanted to help by tacking this bit up

Both welded with 150 amps and pedal flat to the floor, 2.4mm er70 filler, 2.4 blue tungsten and tried traveling as fast as I could without the puddle lagging behind. Still need a lot more practice on the bech when I'm comfortable but I feel like atleast I'm making strong welds

And yes I know, clean the metal better but as usual he dropped it round 20 mins before I had to go out and wanted to see how the tig worked, lucky the welder was already set up