Fiat Seicento. It never rains...

[AndyStobbs]

And prior to?

 

[julianthegypsy]

And prior to?

It was showing 12.6 volts and 14.2 v at idle. My mates' snap-on scanner showed 12.3v with all the lights etc running, which is why we changed the alternator. The new battery was also showing 12.7v, which I couldn't understand with the alternator at 14.2 but I suspect (maybe wrongly) that it wasn't actually pushing any amps in if the regulator was dodgy (or slip rings, which are apparently common on these)

 

[AndyStobbs]

That 12.6, would that typically be enough to get it started?

 

[AndyStobbs]

Battery voltage difference is probably temperature and acid strength related, 0.1v is neither here nor there really.

 

[julianthegypsy]

That 12.6, would that typically be enough to get it started?

Don't know. What's odd is that first thing in the morning it's a bit more sluggish turning over, but generally starts, then after half an hours drive and ten minutes parked up it starts fine, then ten minutes parked up, ten minutes drive and ten minutes parked up, dead as a dodo.

 

[AndyStobbs]

That may improve now with the new alternator. Think you need to do a drain test on it, see what - if anything - is being drawn when parked up.

 

[julianthegypsy]

That may improve now with the new alternator. Think you need to do a drain test on it, see what - if anything - is being drawn when parked up.

That's what it did this morning, with the new alternator. Which is what it was doing before the new alternator.

 

[the snooper]

I didn't originally suspect the alternator because it was putting out 14.2 on idle, then my mate plugged his scanner in with all the lights and heater on and it dropped to 12.3

I suspect it was showing a high voltage due to recent charging dropping to 12.3 on idle would be normal as most alternators don't charge at idle as the engine isn't turning fast enough

 

[julianthegypsy]

I suspect it was showing a high voltage due to recent charging dropping to 12.3 on idle would be normal as most alternators don't charge at idle as the engine isn't turning fast enough

It was holding 14.2 on idle, but I had forgotten to turn the lights and heater on. When he did that, then it dropped. It seemed to be very slow reacting too, suddenly jumping up and then down. My mate wondered if the regulator was causing a drain, though he's the first to admit he's not great with electrics. I'm not sure about a dead spot on the starter either, it doesn't make sense. If I could hear the solenoid kicking in it would make more sense to me, but I'm not hearing anything, and the dash lights aren't dimming. If they were, then it would point me at the starter needing too much current, but there's simply nothing happening. Confused and frustrated.com.

 

[ukracer]

Asked my son as he had one but he had not heard any common issues. He replied with this "

That may improve now with the new alternator. Think you need to do a drain test on it, see what - if anything - is being drawn when parked up.

My lad had one and the CD was drawing powered even when turned off and the only way he could stop it was to take the removable front panel off..

 

[the snooper]

It was holding 14.2 on idle, but I had forgotten to turn the lights and heater on. When he did that, then it dropped. It seemed to be very slow reacting too, suddenly jumping up and then down. My mate wondered if the regulator was causing a drain, though he's the first to admit he's not great with electrics. I'm not sure about a dead spot on the starter either, it doesn't make sense. If I could hear the solenoid kicking in it would make more sense to me, but I'm not hearing anything, and the dash lights aren't dimming. If they were, then it would point me at the starter needing too much current, but there's simply nothing happening. Confused and frustrated.com.

when it refuses to start if you have another vehicle close by put your battery on the other vehicle and see it will start it, it is very odd that you don't get any clicking or anything yet a jump start will get it going, that doesn't make any sense at all

 

[ukracer]

when it refuses to start if you have another vehicle close by put your battery on the other vehicle and see it will start it, it is very odd that you don't get any clicking or anything yet a jump start will get it going, that doesn't make any sense at all

Battery terminals???

 

[stanbester]

You said it starts ok when cold in morning then after some driving when warmed up refusing to start, dead. Do you mean dead because starter motor is not turning engine at all or dead because it's turning but engine is not starting anyway? If it's the second I would check crankshaft sensor if your engine is fitted with one.

 

[normspanners]

This could just be a bad starter signal lead where it connects to the starter, had one similar the other day on a jcb the current is VERY high on initial connection until the starter is engaged because the thin signal wire actually turns the starter slowly initially and can be drawing 60 70 amps for a fraction of a second, then the hold in current is a lot less, by using jumper leads you allow more current but mainly voltage to flow through to the bad connection forcing the leads push fit lucar connector to spark and forcing it to make the trip. The way to check is to get someone to operate the key to start whilst you jiggle the connector.

 

[the snooper]

This could just be a bad starter signal lead where it connects to the starter, had one similar the other day on a jcb the current is VERY high on initial connection until the starter is engaged because the signal wire actually turns the starter initially and can be drawing 60 70 amps initially then the hold in current is a lot less, by using jumper leads you allow more current but mainly voltage to flow through to the bad connection forcing the leads push fit lucar connector to spark and forcing it to make the trip. The way to check is to get someone to operate the key to start whilst you jiggle the connector.

does sound like a bad starter, lead or possibly ignition switch

 

[julianthegypsy]

You said it starts ok when cold in morning then after some driving when warmed up refusing to start, dead. Do you mean dead because starter motor is not turning engine at all or dead because it's turning but engine is not starting anyway? If it's the second I would check crankshaft sensor if your engine is fitted with one.

No, dead because not turning over. Jump or push and it starts immediately.
Battery terminals are fine, I cleaned them when I fitted the new battery, and its a stronger battery that the original, same size but 45ah instead of 38ah and 180cca instead of 130cca.
CD player doesn't turn off, I eject the front face every time I stop.

 

[normspanners]

Just remembered had a freelander doing exactly the same, mates, he is a garage owner too !! was his daughters car, he put a starter, battery exta earth etc and all it was, was a bad lucar.
He was well pi$$ed, when I sussed it in 20 secs.

 

[the snooper]

No, dead because not turning over. Jump or push and it starts immediately.
Battery terminals are fine, I cleaned them when I fitted the new battery, and its a stronger battery that the original, same size but 45ah instead of 38ah and 180cca instead of 130cca.
CD player doesn't turn off, I eject the front face every time I stop.

some years ago I had a mk1 capri, it wouldn't start in a morning or when it had cooled down but once started and on a warm day it would start all day long until next morning, turned out to be starter motor coils contracting when cold and shorting, it turned over like it was a flat battery and did infact kill the battery very quickly

 

[julianthegypsy]

Just remembered had a freelander doing exactly the same mates daughters car he put a starter, battery exta earth etc and all it was was the lucar.

What's a lucar? I'm still catching up with electronics and cars!

 

[normspanners]

this

connects to