Fake counterfeits

[Kayos]

Ah, good call, that was imprecise. And here was I thinking I might have gone into a little too much detail!

Calling it "fake" when it's nominally the same item rolling out of the same factory is a grey area though. I still think the "cranking up the handle" fake counterfeit route is plausible. "Smok" orders a million widgets at a certain price which get delivered to a number of assembly plants and once the order is fulfilled, they bang out another million at high speed/no QA or re-sell a million parts which failed inspection. Makes me wonder sometimes if all those millions of Chinese sellers aren't all huddled together in some huge warehouse cranking out eBay ads for the black market

I think the Apple spare parts supply trade has the same or similar issues surrounding whether or not unbranded items are "genuine". Big business (like Apple) are very keen to stop any spares at all from coming out of China. They failed and along with other Global Corporations are supporting a new law which would make repairing your own thing illegal. That tells me Global Corp. Inc. can't stop China from doing whatever the hell it wants when it comes to selling stuff, even if that stuff is made for them under license.

That scenario is definitely a "thing" and is almost identical to the fake counterfeit scenario except the parts aren't being made under license for export, they're being made nominally for a China brand product.

If I agree with you will you please stop typing? I'm losing the will to live

 

[Screwdriver]

So before you eat the burger you have to read through all the metadata to be sure it's kosher, like that's going to happen. Will the wrapper be included in all this so I can track down the litterlout who drops his bag over our front wall when he has finished his wappy meal.

No. Blockchain is monitored by A.I. which flags any illegal or unaccounted product. MacDonals (in this example) merely have to show the blockchain is clean which I will see because of course, I am in the same process with my virtual cash.

 

[Screwdriver]

If I agree with you will you please stop typing? I'm losing the argument

Yes of course.

 

[pedrobedro]

probably a consortium in reality and they come with holographic stickers, scratch and sniff registration codes, certificates of authenticity and many have dedicated websites purporting to catch counterfeits...

I think you'll find that it's the firm making the stickers and codes and selling them to anyone with the money that is at the heart of the problem.

 

[MetalMonkey]

Perhaps it was just copied by another Chinese manufacturer which was less concerned with quality control - the Chinese are fairly well known for copying their own gear just as much as anybody else’s.


There is also a well-known issue with (and a couple of lawsuits regarding) Chinese companies contracted by western brands A) doing "extra" runs of “genuine” products which they then sell under an own brand or to another brand - and B) doing extra runs of "genuine" labels which they then sell to other companies to be put on their “fake” products.

Quality control and protecting IP is the biggest headache when dealing with Chinese manufacturing as they can, and do make high quality products but also have no issue with trashing an entire brand to save a few Yuan. Their concepts of brand quality and loyalty are very different to what we have typically come to expect, although I understand it is now slowly changing over there.

 

[DAPPH]

I'm not trolling, I'm responding to what I've seen. My reply sums up my initial response

As someone who buys vast quantities of specialised items, quite often from China, I have yet to see anything like you have stated

I have seen genuine items, fake items and poor copies but I'm yet to see any manufacturer selling a poor version of their own product and then claiming it's fake. It makes zero business sense

You used to be able to buy eBay bulk untested stuff . Which was batch run rejects from factories in China & elsewhere . I got LED's about 1/3 were no good , the rest worked

 

[Screwdriver]

I think you'll find that it's the firm making the stickers and codes and selling them to anyone with the money that is at the heart of the problem.

Well I just found this (tbh, I just looked for it!)

SMOK (also known as Smoktech) is the flagship brand of Shenzhen IVPS Technology Corporation Ltd.

From here: https://vaping360.com/brands/smok/ No I haven't read it and I have no idea how true it is either but there it is...

 

[Screwdriver]

Perhaps it was just copied by another Chinese manufacturer which was less concerned with quality control - the Chinese are fairly well known for copying their own gear just as much as anybody else’s.


There is also a well-known issue with (and a couple of lawsuits regarding) Chinese companies contracted by western brands A) doing "extra" runs of “genuine” products which they then sell under an own brand or to another brand - and B) doing extra runs of "genuine" labels which they then sell to other companies to be put on their “fake” products.

Quality control and protecting IP is the biggest headache when dealing with Chinese manufacturing as they can, and do make high quality products but also have no issue with trashing an entire brand to save a few Yuan. Their concepts of brand quality and loyalty are very different to what we have typically come to expect, although I understand it is now slowly changing over there.

So would that make them genuine fake counterfeits, being manufactured by the same factories??

I think I need to leave this now and go have a lie down.

 

[Bladevane]

Or stop smoking.

 

[Parm]

My sisters boyfriends family are one of the largest importers of Chinese goods into the U.K.

They are also one of the biggest air rifle importers and sellers.

They have 4 people on rotation in China looking out for the next big thing to import

They report that there are multiple qualities of everything.

There’s the original, the fake and then a reproduction of the fake

All made in different factories by different groups and organisations

They have been involved in this business for 20 years and know a thing or two.

 

[DAPPH]

Nice one Parm, 1, 400, 000,000 Chinese need to have a lot of factories to make the money & people work .

 

[mtt.tr]

Yes of course.

This statement clears up your personal motives.


Attention all, just agree!


I know they make fakes, yet to see empirical evidence of your suggestion though ive read that failed products get resold, but nearly always under a different brand

 

[500e]

"No. Blockchain is monitored by A.I. which flags any illegal or unaccounted product. MacDonald's (in this example) merely have to show the blockchain is clean which I will see because of course, I am in the same process with my virtual cash".
And you think AI will sort things dream on

 

[WorkshopChris]

My sisters boyfriends family are one of the largest importers of Chinese goods into the U.K.

They are also one of the biggest air rifle importers and sellers.

They have 4 people on rotation in China looking out for the next big thing to import

They report that there are multiple qualities of everything.

There’s the original, the fake and then a reproduction of the fake

All made in different factories by different groups and organisations

They have been involved in this business for 20 years and know a thing or two.

I have customers who do similar this backed up everything I have seen. Often doing QC for them. Not yet ever seen any evidence of a factory churning out 1 product and selling to different buyers. 1 original and then the copies. its just lots of copying going on, at various levels.

 

[Westfield-builder]

This happened years ago with B&D Workmate benches, some were so good B&D put their own stickers on them and sold them as genuine.

Aston Martin were caught doing this a few years ago. I think it may have been light lenses ( not certain). Their supplier had sneaked some work out the back door to a much inferior supplier, parts arrived in official AM boxes

 

[Burdekin]

My sisters boyfriends family are one of the largest importers of Chinese goods into the U.K.

They are also one of the biggest air rifle importers and sellers.

They have 4 people on rotation in China looking out for the next big thing to import

They report that there are multiple qualities of everything.

There’s the original, the fake and then a reproduction of the fake

All made in different factories by different groups and organisations

They have been involved in this business for 20 years and know a thing or two.

The diesel heaters are a good example of this. The original copies were decent but now it’s a minefield with poor copies which maybe copies of the copies, or just rubbish copies.

 

[Screwdriver]

And you think AI will sort things dream on

I think if/when we develop quantum computers with realistic numbers of qubits that will represent the biggest single technological breakthrough since the invention of the wheel. It is a biggie and (while I seriously don’t have a clue what I am talking about) quantum computing and AI pear to go hand in hand.

AI is not a prerequisite for blockchain, that was just me going off on one, blockchain is the key technology to combat quantum computing because QC allows entire encrypted databases to be hacked at will. Password protection (lit cryptography) relies on the vast oceans of time it would take a classical computer to calculate relatively simple sums (factoring prime numbers) something that QC can do in the blink of an eye.

If you don’t believe me, go look it up. Certainly the “bad actors” like China/Russia etc are hoovering up and storing encrypted information right now on the grounds that one day they’ll easily be able to pop them open.

AI on the other hand is still but a dream. A human conceit since if you ask me, we haven’t even come up with a cast iron description of what AI really means anyway.

But yes, managing a blockchain is something even dumb classical computers can do so it is coming for those reasons I suggest. Unless you know better?

 

[Screwdriver]

My sisters boyfriends family are one of the largest importers of Chinese goods into the U.K.

They are also one of the biggest air rifle importers and sellers.

They have 4 people on rotation in China looking out for the next big thing to import

They report that there are multiple qualities of everything.

There’s the original, the fake and then a reproduction of the fake

All made in different factories by different groups and organisations

They have been involved in this business for 20 years and know a thing or two.

I would be interested to know it if that is being done with the knowledge of the state. I would be surprised if it wasn’t but would be very interested to hear from those in the know.

 

[Parm]

Im not gonna say what they trade under

They are business folk, not politicians or conspiracy theorists or anything else

Not having a pop at you but they are busy folk

 

[pedrobedro]

I read about Shenzen being the manufacturing centre and how one firm starts making something then others copy it and develop it into something a bit better or using less parts to make more profit and that is helping to improve production techniques and product development, they don't bother with patent law.