EVs and really bad weather.....

[GRW]

But you could also buy a petrol or diesel car for £54,000 and, I'm not sure

What was your point?

I'd say the point is that you can buy a reliable/proven ICE car for not very much at all - no need to spend 30+K.

I've not looked what the cheapest EV or Hybrid car is.... but its a lot more than you can get a good ICE for.

Buying a used EV is also something that I reckon an awful lot of punters would be very, very wary of. There's little in the way of indications as to whether a 20K battery pack might last 5-years or 5-weeks, and just about everything that might go wrong comes with very, very big repair price tags - so the risks ad potential losses of serious money is off-putting.

Mind you - the skyrocketing cost of motoring is I believe slowly but steadily going to be pricing out all but the wealthy, while the scary unreliability and potential huge mtce & repair costs are purposefully killing off the used car market.

It'll not be too far into the future when personal transport demographics will return to how it was 100 years ago.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Then again my prev car was a rwd 5 series so not a high bar to set in terms of snow ability!! Great fun in the snow though

Same as mine, but I've never had problems getting to where I need to be - a spare set of alloys fitted with Winter tyres have seen to that. I change them over in the Spring, then back to Winters again in October[ish].

 

[GRW]

As for EV'S and snow / ice....
It's kinda irrelevant in the UK. Not cos we don't sometimes get cruddy weather, but because the risks and costs associated with driving in snow - are no longer worth it.
You're better off staying home and losing a day's pay, than you are risking the huge costs of an Excess & an Insurance Hike when some hopeless clown t-bones you en route.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

You're better off staying home

I bought the spare alloys/tyres a few years ago at a time when I had to attend hospital 40 miles away for treatment once a week. Even now it's once a month, so well worth the spend.

 

[Kayos]

I'd say the point is that you can buy a reliable/proven ICE car for not very much at all - no need to spend 30+K.

I've not looked what the cheapest EV or Hybrid car is.... but its a lot more than you can get a good ICE for.

Buying a used EV is also something that I reckon an awful lot of punters would be very, very wary of. There's little in the way of indications as to whether a 20K battery pack might last 5-years or 5-weeks, and just about everything that might go wrong comes with very, very big repair price tags - so the risks ad potential losses of serious money is off-putting.

Mind you - the skyrocketing cost of motoring is I believe slowly but steadily going to be pricing out all but the wealthy, while the scary unreliability and potential huge mtce & repair costs are purposefully killing off the used car market.

It'll not be too far into the future when personal transport demographics will return to how it was 100 years ago.

As I've aged I value my time more than anything, therefore a modern car is my preference. The repair and maintenance costs of my EV are not mine, so it's the ideal choice

 

[barracuda816]

Buying a used EV is also something that I reckon an awful lot of punters would be very, very wary of. There's little in the way of indications as to whether a 20K battery pack might last 5-years or 5-weeks, and just about everything that might go wrong comes with very, very big repair price tags - so the risks ad potential losses of serious money is off-putting.

That’s not true. It is much easier to see the state of a battery then the sate of an ice motor. Or a gearbox or the many other ice vehicle components that EVs don’t need.

With the battery you can (well either you or the dealer depending on make and model) see each battery cell voltage and state of health.

 

[GRW]

I bought the spare alloys/tyres a few years ago at a time when I had to attend hospital 40 miles away for treatment once a week. Even now it's once a month, so well worth the spend.

If you gotta drive you gotta drive. I'm just saying that for me in the current UK climate (& I ain't talking about the weather) - no way would I be risking a decent vehicle of mine in bad conditions (not a bit of slush or some snow) - to commute to work. The risk/reward equation is way too out of whack.

I have a work vehicle & no need to run a car to commute - so if the Director is happy to risk his vehicle getting totalled, & his premium walloped - then I'm behind the wheel (up to a point).
I can drive well enough in all conditions & surfaces (we are all passengers on sheet ice with regular tyres) - but given that at least half the UK drivers can't seem to do a half-decent job in clear/dry conditions......

 

[GRW]

That’s not true. It is much easier to see the state of a battery then the sate of an ice motor. Or a gearbox or the many other ice vehicle components that EVs don’t need.

With the battery you can (well either you or the dealer depending on make and model) see each battery cell voltage and state of health.

I was in a Ford main dealers all day today working on some kit.
One of the bosses there spent a while talking with me - & (as he was driving one) the subject of EV's / Hybrids came up.
Let's just summarise by saying what he said about used EV's and issues didn't correlate with what you said above (he had a Mercedes in the workshop at the time which was overheating the battery straps/busbars badly enough to discolour/blue them - with no obvious explanation why. Given just how scary / un-extinguishable / disastrous an EV fire is - you can understand his concerns - he could come in one morning to find millions of £ of vehicles & property gone up in smoke & flames!

I'm all for freedom of choice - if you have and are happy with your EV - then all power to you.
Me? I don't want one (can't afford one, but if I could, I'd spend it on just about anything else first).

 

[dobbslc]

Since when did a 5 seater family car weigh 3 ton ? The old mercedes s class weighed similar with a 6.3 v12 and double glazed windows!

That's what annoys me, the manufacturers are pushing them as the "green" alternative but a lot of them are way to big and heavy!
Nissan Note or Renault Zoe's etc are ok but a 3 ton Audi?
Just for show offs.

 

[redlig]

As for EV'S and snow / ice....
It's kinda irrelevant in the UK. Not cos we don't sometimes get cruddy weather, but because the risks and costs associated with driving in snow - are no longer worth it.
You're better off staying home and losing a day's pay, than you are risking the huge costs of an Excess & an Insurance Hike when some hopeless clown t-bones you en route.

When " on the road" I would phone the boss and say would he rather loose a rep for a day or two or replace the car etc. He would always reply " OK you win go back to bed"

 

[GRW]

That's what annoys me, the manufacturers are pushing them as the "green" alternative but a lot of them are way to big and heavy!
Nissan Note or Renault Zoe's etc are ok but a 3 ton Audi?
Just for show offs.

It's a great scam & selling pitch to spin an EV as "Green". Its the same trick our Govt spins to encourage (or legisatively force) Joe Public to accept & spend on new kit and pay extra for things badged as "for the good of the environment.

We are a consumer society, and our entire economy is reliant upon taxed consumer spending.

The "Green" angle is the perfect pitch to the punter. Get him to spend and consume, but give him a reason to feel good & righteous about it - he's not consuming really, oh no - he's spending to save the planet
It's helping people to justify their consumption to themselves - and not a hard Con to pull off, because the Punter is looking for validation.

 

[MattF]

because the Punter is looking for validation.

"I want it" is the only validation I ever need for my purchases.

 

[barracuda816]

That's what annoys me, the manufacturers are pushing them as the "green" alternative but a lot of them are way to big and heavy!
Nissan Note or Renault Zoe's etc are ok but a 3 ton Audi?
Just for show offs.

Agreed! But I see this a sign of the immature market. Start with the fancy expensive cars as they make the money then trickle down to the more realistic daily commute type cars. They are looking are making cars that are 500mile range and supercar speed. That’s not what we need.

There is also slot of promising tech out there for battery too. Utilising sulphur and alluminim. That would be a huge environmental step I. The right order.

In my own opinion ice vehicles days are numbered. Even if they just fall out of favor. The EV Markt is maturing and developing very quickly. There will be outliers. Such at farm equiptment. Lorries etc. unless they implement the over head rails. But I’m not sure see it catching on. It’s a lot of expensive infrastructue

But sadly I do see a future where no one owns a car. They will be on a subscription service. You drive the car and of it goes to the next person. No parking garages full of vehicles used for only a day. No everyone charging at the same fine after work. Save hugely on traffic congestion. Bit of a sad futures imho but good for city’s. (I’m not a city boy!)
Whether it’s in my lifetime I don’t know but I’ll be surprised if it’s not I’m my kids!

 

[jimbo84]

Mines a Berlingo van, full electric but a no frills EV. It was tested recently in a couple of days of snow in the cold spell around christmas. Did well, no issues with snow. The only probelm I had was when the snow started to melt then froze again overnight and then rained on it so the street was like an ice rink, did get stuck on one spot but managed to free it and then it was fine and managed to make it to the gritted main roads.

It has Hankook Vantra tyres with decent tread depth which I believe to be an all season tyre. According to the scrap yard it's about a 1/2 ton heavier than it's diesel equivalent.

As for range (some people have mentioned it) the cold doesn't bother it too much, it'll do in the region of 4miles per KWh regardless, you do notice a slight drop if it's sub zero. Turn the heating onto max and it'll half the range. You can get a good balance between the amount of heat and range depletion though. The more spendy EVs have much better heating systems, heated seats, heated steering wheels etc.

 

[barracuda816]

I was in a Ford main dealers all day today working on some kit.
One of the bosses there spent a while talking with me - & (as he was driving one) the subject of EV's / Hybrids came up.
Let's just summarise by saying what he said about used EV's and issues didn't correlate with what you said above (he had a Mercedes in the workshop at the time which was overheating the battery straps/busbars badly enough to discolour/blue them - with no obvious explanation why. Given just how scary / un-extinguishable / disastrous an EV fire is - you can understand his concerns - he could come in one morning to find millions of £ of vehicles & property gone up in smoke & flames!

I'm all for freedom of choice - if you have and are happy with your EV - then all power to you.
Me? I don't want one (can't afford one, but if I could, I'd spend it on just about anything else first).

Depends on the battery chem. lifepo4s are making a comeback and are much more stable. (No fire pretty much) (Cheaper too) so they are ideal when you don’t have to have a 700 mile raged beast.

Can’t comment on your mates issue, could be a design flaw. Busbars incorrectly rated. Not tightened correctly.
No idea but it’s not a common think on most Ev batteries.

But these battery’s are pretty simple. At the end on the day they are only cells in a module with a bms. They are not rocket science.

I don’t have an Ev either. Can’t afford one. Would I if I had the money. Meh not sure would rather convert a classic and live without all the computer tech in modern cars. If I was rich mayby i would lease a modern Ev.

 

[willie.macleod]

How do drivers cope driving an EV in really adverse weather/road conditions - I'm talking ice and/or deep[ish] snow?

I had my Leaf over in the New Year, coming off the late ferry from Ullapool into a snow storm and navigating by the snow poles most of the way to Garve where the gritter was broken down the Leaf did very well. Going through virgin snow with nothing ahead/behind for most of the way, uses a good bit more battery with the higher rolling resistance pushing into snow. Couldn't fault it for grip but it did have new (budget) winter tyres on it in October which would have helped. It's got a heat pump which is a bonus but the battery pack is a bit small for comfort in the winter during longer trips (30kWh when new but its 7 years old now) so it gets charged wherever it gets left. If I didn't charge in Dingwall I wouldn't have made Inverness.

It gets in and out icy drives that embarrassed the R55 mini and Skoda Superb. Much of it is down to tyres although the decent weight distribution helps. The stability control works pretty well to keep the car heading in the direction it is pointed. Not a Land Rover though!

 

[My Old Landy]

I would love to convert my 90 to electric, it would be great in the snow I did get a quote of £22k so out of my range but still a nice idea.

 

[Kayos]

It's a great scam & selling pitch to spin an EV as "Green". Its the same trick our Govt spins to encourage (or legisatively force) Joe Public to accept & spend on new kit and pay extra for things badged as "for the good of the environment.

We are a consumer society, and our entire economy is reliant upon taxed consumer spending.

The "Green" angle is the perfect pitch to the punter. Get him to spend and consume, but give him a reason to feel good & righteous about it - he's not consuming really, oh no - he's spending to save the planet
It's helping people to justify their consumption to themselves - and not a hard Con to pull off, because the Punter is looking for validation.

But what about those who want an EV, and don't need any 'angle'?

I chose to drive an EV, saving the planet is just the day job

 

[dobbslc]

Sorry I couldn't resist.

For the younger viewers this is Captain Chaos...

 

[atomant48]

Sorry I couldn't resist.
View attachment 388153
For the younger viewers this is Captain Chaos...

Yes but you couldn’t get more ironic when discussing EVs and the environment