Electric cars getting interesting?

[Nick DV]

Funny hwo you guys use the metric system for decades and still use MPG for fuel consumption

Still use inches, feet, yards, lbs etc! I'm still stuck in the stone age but I am starting to move with the times ..............!

 

[ronan]

Funny hwo you guys use the metric system for decades and still use MPG for fuel consumption

I still use inches feet etc, and certainly miles for longer distances, i have a rough idea of how far certain towns and cities are from where i live, not got a clue in KM.

 

[Burdekin]

Did the webinar, if I was in market for a new EV it is a good way to lease a car. Basically the lease cost would come off of my gross salary and as there is currently 0% benefit in kind tax for EVs there is a good saving to be had.

A Kia Nero hybrid or 64KW EV which includes insurance, servicing, tyres, road tax etc both work out about £320/month net for 4 years.

 

[Burdekin]

Realise it's not a direct comparison but currently there are more than 2000 more public charge points compared to service stations in the UK.

 

[ronan]

Realise it's not a direct comparison but currently there are more than 2000 more public charge points compared to service stations in the UK.

Don't the manufacturers of the cars have phone apps that show you your closest charging point ? I know Jaguar certainly do.

 

[Jay1st]

Realise it's not a direct comparison but currently there are more than 2000 more public charge points compared to service stations in the UK.

If it's like here, not all are with the correct socket, and they all require a yearly subscription. Never the same company/brand and each need a subscription talk about the "vache à lait" as we say here.

 

[Burdekin]

If it's like here, not all are with the correct socket, and they all require a yearly subscription. Never the same company/brand and each need a subscription talk about the "vache à lait" as we say here.

First time I've heard that so I can't say for sure but I would say no that isn't the case in the UK

 

[Jay1st]

First time I've heard that so I can't say for sure but I would say no that isn't the case in the UK

Youtube has some quite known local guys doing long driving range EV tests like crossing france, going on vacation etc......and it's what they found.

 

[ronan]

First time I've heard that so I can't say for sure but I would say no that isn't the case in the UK

Watch this Burdekin.

 

[ronan]

Charging points and subscriptions are currently a contentious issue as it forces people into having accounts (contracts) with a single supplier, and only being allowed to pay by credit cards.

Compare this to s current pertol station where you can simply go and even if it is full, you only have to wait until a pump becomes empty, you can pull up and as most modern pumps dispense both petrol and diesel you can get unleaded, super unleaded, and diesel, so choice, you can then fill up and pay by credit card, cash, or as I do, a fuel card.

This is merely one of many issues people resent, they can go to any petrol station they like or choose for fuel and even compare prices locally and nationally, with electric you are on a fixed price which allegedly breaches competition legislation and reduces comsumer choice unless you have multiple accounts with multiple suppliers.

This is where Tesla is winning, they set up your account when you buy the car, they have excellent charging facilities, and lots of them and the chargers are quick. The fact that every manufacturer has its own system is stupid, it should be standardised.

 

[mike os]

The only reason I said that an electric vehicle wouldn't work for @Burdekin was that he said there was no charging infrastructure in the area. The London to Glasgow type of journeys is when the hybrids come into there own - I have a Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid and regularly return 65+mpg for all driving

Is that all? I can get 55mpg out of my TT at close to legal speeds ....and have fun doing it

If I take it easy I've had 63 over 200miles

 

[ronan]

Do you think the trade of motor mechanic is going to disappear over the coming decades ? It'll be a bit like being a fireman on a steam train, or a lamplighter ? Simply no longer required ? Very little mechanically to wear, no new exhausts to fit as the old ones rot out, no oils to change, ditto clutches and knackered gearboxes, brakes are regen, so no real wear on pads or discs.

 

[DAPPH]

In reality the environmental argument doesn't stack up yet, recent environmental tests showed it takes the same environmental emissions to produce one currently popular electric car battery as it takes to build and run a 5.0L american saloon running on petrol for 7 years and that is just the battery and the rest of the car has to be built, also; they cannot be recycled despite claims to the contrary as economics means recycling has to be profitible and only 3 major elements can be recycled with quite low efficiency and the rest of the battery has to be dumped.

Also remember they only tell you what they want you to know, they never mention the cost in energy of obtaining the elements that make up the battery, the fact most of it is mined and often using children, or the fact that wind turbines kill many flying animals and they employ teams to regularly clean them up before daylight so people don't see them, they never mention the Government report which shows solar panels are financial losses for those installing them, so it comes down to money and who makes it.

Most wind turbines are on land owned by wealthy individuals or large corporations, so why? they negotiate a deal to lease their land to a wind turbine operator and the operator negotiates an annual price for (usually) 20 years, they pay ground rent and usually a percentage of electricity sales profits, the operator then commissions the wind turbines and installs them and it doesn't even matter if they produce electricity or not as the landowner still gets paid, so where is the scam? Governments ring fence and guarantee the ground rents for 25 years (taxpayers money, yours and mine) and if the operator goes bust the landowner still collects his guaranteed ground rent for 25 years and also compensation for not being able to use his land for other purposes such as agriculture and the Government (we) also pays for the demolition of the turbines.

Just surprised more posters haven't looked into it for themselves.

It is all about money as there are better alternatives such as water turbines, more efficient, produce more energy, cheaper to build and maintain, and of course less profits for the rich which is why they have been dismissed.

Nobody mentions the costs of electric cars, nobody mentions the weight of the batteries for commercial vehicles where they significantly reduce their payload, nobody mentions the shortage of raw materials such as "rare earths" for rare earth motors which by its very name tells us they are rare and finite, nobody mentions the self combustion of car batteries or the fact the fire brigade cannot fight battery car fires as water has no positive effects only negative effects, or the fact car batteries are now hitting 800 volts and if you are in an accident with an electric car you and everyone else can be electricuted by 800 volts of DC power.

Interestingly it was recently that a Reanault Zoe owner had a near miss with his children, they have an inherent fault which is the windscreen seals leaking and they leak water into the footwell and the main battery connections are right under the drivers footwell (UK models RHD) and while the connections are well protected from the road they have little protection from water inside the vehicle and his children were playing in the footwell which was full of water, maybe he shouldn't have let his children play there, but the fact water entered these connections through the footwell was enough for him to get rid of the car, and most are made from that highly conductive material, steel.

There are many more negatives and I would advocate people research it for themselves and find out what we are not being told and it becomes very interesting, even the latest research showing the latest diesels actually clean up many city centres has been squashed as it also shows most pollution is not from cars, but industrial pollution, and not obtain the agenda pushing media hype who openly promote Government agendas are not accurate sources of information.

We have an Outlander the battery is warranted for 10yrs to give the magic 80 % or so charge needed to propel the vehicle . In year four ( next year ) we get the heavy discharge check . I was informed any cells that do not come up to spec get replaced FOC , the sub spec batteries still have about another 15 years of useful life as domestic storage battery banks like the Tessla power bank .

I take issue with your assumption that water turbines are the solution for the whole of the UK , for example much of Lincolnshire , East Anglia & the South East in general is a flat as pee on a plate . The only way you'll get your hyrdro generation is from tidal sources . You could hear the nimby's howling in Timbuktu when it was proposed to put a tidal barrage across part of the Bristol channel , they got even nosier when it was proposed to put a trial barrage across the river at Swansea .

 

[DAPPH]

The only reason I said that an electric vehicle wouldn't work for @Burdekin was that he said there was no charging infrastructure in the area. The London to Glasgow type of journeys is when the hybrids come into there own - I have a Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid and regularly return 65+mpg for all driving

Alison managed almost 3k before the cars computer said , " Put some more fuel in the tank, you haven't filled up with new petrol for six months " Had a chat with the dealership .. then ran it on petrol only for 200 miles to please the computer , then refilled the tank.
We rarely need to use public charging points . Our home is integrated with solar panels & off peak power for most of the heavy current things like the dishwasher , washing machine dryer & frequently in summer the electric oven in the day time .

When it's day light we get more than enough to export to the electricity company , if it brilliant sunshine we can take 4 Kwhr an hour for free as long as the sun shines strongly .

Al has become very proficient at judging & juggling things to the best advantage for us wrt using PV solar & the time clocked low rate power
The car charging point is time clocked but I had an override switchable link in the circuit so if the sun is shining we can charge the car for free or if it's not sunny enough & we need her car we can switch off the time clock circuit and use normal day rate power to charge the car.
As I said earlier this may not suit everybody but it will suit a very large proportion of people with EV's .

 

[DAPPH]

Do you think the trade of motor mechanic is going to disappear over the coming decades ? It'll be a bit like being a fireman on a steam train, or a lamplighter ? Simply no longer required ? Very little mechanically to wear, no new exhausts to fit as the old ones rot out, no oils to change, ditto clutches and knackered gearboxes, brakes are regen, so no real wear on pads or discs.

We found out that with Alison mainly using regen as the main way of braking the front calipers became partly stuck on causing severe wear on the front discs & totally removing the brake pad linings on the front brakes . Had she been using the foot brakes a lot more this would not have happened ..happily the problem was covered under the from new warrantee .

 

[DAPPH]

Charging points and subscriptions are currently a contentious issue as it forces people into having accounts (contracts) with a single supplier, and only being allowed to pay by credit cards.

Compare this to s current pertol station where you can simply go and even if it is full, you only have to wait until a pump becomes empty, you can pull up and as most modern pumps dispense both petrol and diesel you can get unleaded, super unleaded, and diesel, so choice, you can then fill up and pay by credit card, cash, or as I do, a fuel card.

This is merely one of many issues people resent, they can go to any petrol station they like or choose for fuel and even compare prices locally and nationally, with electric you are on a fixed price which allegedly breaches competition legislation and reduces comsumer choice unless you have multiple accounts with multiple suppliers.

As has been said many many time EV's are not suitable for every one but for the vast majority of urbanites they are .

Electric Car (EV) Charging Points UK - A Complete Guide | EDF
https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/charging-points
Electric car UK charging points map There are now more than 30,000 charge points across the UK in over 11,000 locations - that's more public places to charge than petrol stations, with around 10,000 charge points added in 2019 alone. The Corona virus outbreak slowed the proposed roll out of taking the sites to over 20 K

The problem of needing multiple accounts with multiple companies was about to be addressed similar to the way the card only unmanned filing points were rolled out up & down the country , but I've not heard anymore since the Corona event took the headlines. IE one charging point machine accepts ten or so supply company cards . It's early days for a full all singing all dancing national scheme to be fully up & running but give it a few more years and you will be smiling at how we used to do things in the past .
If the supermarkets bring in carpark recharging tied to their loyalty cards things will change dramatically for a heck of a lot of punters with EV's as they'll be able shop & recharge with little or no inconvenience.

 

[daleyd]

We have an Outlander the battery is warranted for 10yrs to give the magic 80 % or so charge needed to propel the vehicle . In year four ( next year ) we get the heavy discharge check . I was informed any cells that do not come up to spec get replaced FOC , the sub spec batteries still have about another 15 years of useful life as domestic storage battery banks like the Tessla power bank .

I take issue with your assumption that water turbines are the solution for the whole of the UK , for example much of Lincolnshire , East Anglia & the South East in general is a flat as pee on a plate . The only way you'll get your hyrdro generation is from tidal sources . You could hear the nimby's howling in Timbuktu when it was proposed to put a tidal barrage across part of the Bristol channel , they got even nosier when it was proposed to put a trial barrage across the river at Swansea .

I disagree with most things in the post you quoted, and I’m in no way an advocate of EV (though I can see they have advantages and disadvantages) - but most of it seemed to be either plain wrong or just hysteria.

 

[DAPPH]

I disagree with most things in the post you quoted, and I’m in no way an advocate of EV (though I can see they have advantages and disadvantages) - but most of it seemed to be either plain wrong or just hysteria.

When the Severn tidal barrier is completed or the trial one at Swansea I'll agree with you . If you can report that there is a big hydro electricity plant in the east of the country I'll buy you a box of chocolates & a bottle of cheap champagne .

 

[R-D-R]

On brakes our BEV dabs the brakes every so often when regen braking (and when it's raining apparently) its part of its maintenance cycle. Got chatting to the service tech at its last service.

 

[daleyd]

When the Severn tidal barrier is completed or the trial one at Swansea I'll agree with you . If you can report that there is a big hydro electricity plant in the east of the country I'll buy you a box of chocolates & a bottle of cheap champagne .

Sorry if you misunderstood, I’m in complete agreement with you, my post was directed at the one you quoted, not yours! There’s no way hydro is anywhere near going to be a major part of this countries generation - not to say it doesn’t have a place but we just don’t have the right conditions for it. As for wind companies sending people around to collect dead birds at night - tosh!