Electric cars getting interesting?

[AndersK]

Go a bit further west and you can see Chernobyl, thats out of action too, not so intact though

One of our power plants were one of the first to detect the fall out from their disaster. They emergency stopped their reactors thinking it was theirs leaking. They then realised there were no radiation inside the plant...

 

[Arash]

I have just leased an electric van. After a life time of running on more carebon neutral fuels (namely biodiesel and used plant and animal oils) I found a good deal on an all electric van. It makes a lot of sense in London, cheap parking and free congestion charge etc..
Its due in a week or 2 and I will update you lot on what its actually like. It does not have rapid charging, so no long journeys are not practical, but most of my work is in inner London.

 

[Shedendman]

Go a bit further west and you can see Chernobyl, thats out of action too, not so intact though

East

 

[badabec]

East

Going the longer, scenic route

 

[ronan]

East

D'oh !

 

[DAPPH]

The Germans went all out on renewables, solar, wind and all that and closed and demolished their coal fired power stations. Then they discovered they could not power themselves, and had to go to the Russians and buy gas from them.

It looks like they are regretting it right now ... fancy letting Putin have the upper hand on your country especially in a really harsh long winter . That what the greens have done to their country , I wonder who funds them ? .

I wonder how long it will be before they start using more of their hydro generation prospects of rivers , mountain streams & massive hydro electric dams

 

[ronan]

It looks like they are regretting it right now ... fancy letting Putin have the upper hand on your country especially in a really harsh long winter . That what the greens have done to their country , I wonder who funds them ? .

I wonder how long it will be before they start using more of their hydro generation prospects of rivers , mountain streams & massive hydro electric dams

Thats what happened when Ukraine was invaded by Putin a few years back, Germany couldn't say a word, as he would have cut off the gas supply. I know a few German guys over here and they are very angry about it.

 

[DAPPH]

My nephew Brian is born German , splits is life between there & the UK looking after his businesses .

One of our neighbours was gum bumping about the turbine array on Betws Mountain and the massive privately funded turbine some 800 mtrs away .

Brian was getting tired of him ranting . So Brian looked him straight in the eye and said , "What right do you have to deny our kids and grand kids a healthier cleaner air and a better way of producing electricity than the wind and sun energy which are free ? " . " A blind man would be over the moon to see those turbines four miles away over there " . ( pointing to the array ) . The neighbour closed his chasm & retired mortally wounded indoors .

I've noticed the area's gum bumpers braying about our local ground array of solar PV have quietened down a heck of a lot as the hundred acres or so of our local former open cast coalmine now solar PV farm are an absolute haven for ground nesting birds and small mammals ( the foxes & badgers can't get in , over or under the three metre high perimeter fencing . The nimby's are quiet too , as it means they won't have to put up with neighbours & new buildings spoiling their views of Carmel & Black mountain .

 

[DAPPH]

Thats what happened when Ukraine was invaded by Putin a few years back, Germany couldn't say a word, as he would have cut off the gas supply. I know a few German guys over here and they are very angry about it.

It's the same reason that the Russian's northern gas pipe lines project to try and get all of Europe and much of the Scandia countries on to their gas has been kicked into touch , they finally worked out what it really means . Russia does nothing without a massive benefit to themselves that also increases their power /control in the rest of the world .

 

[Nick DV]

In reality the environmental argument doesn't stack up yet, recent environmental tests showed it takes the same environmental emissions to produce one currently popular electric car battery as it takes to build and run a 5.0L american saloon running on petrol for 7 years ....................................openly promote Government agendas are not accurate sources of information.

I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I maintain that the internal combustion engine - petrol & diesel - will be around for many, many years to come!

 

[cheb]

In reality the environmental argument doesn't stack up yet, recent environmental tests showed it takes the same environmental emissions to produce one currently popular electric car battery as it takes to build and run a 5.0L american saloon running on petrol for 7 years and that is just the battery and the rest of the car has to be built, also; they cannot be recycled despite claims to the contrary as economics means recycling has to be profitible and only 3 major elements can be recycled with quite low efficiency and the rest of the battery has to be dumped.

Also remember they only tell you what they want you to know, they never mention the cost in energy of obtaining the elements that make up the battery, the fact most of it is mined and often using children, or the fact that wind turbines kill many flying animals and they employ teams to regularly clean them up before daylight so people don't see them, they never mention the Government report which shows solar panels are financial losses for those installing them, so it comes down to money and who makes it.

Most wind turbines are on land owned by wealthy individuals or large corporations, so why? they negotiate a deal to lease their land to a wind turbine operator and the operator negotiates an annual price for (usually) 20 years, they pay ground rent and usually a percentage of electricity sales profits, the operator then commissions the wind turbines and installs them and it doesn't even matter if they produce electricity or not as the landowner still gets paid, so where is the scam? Governments ring fence and guarantee the ground rents for 25 years (taxpayers money, yours and mine) and if the operator goes bust the landowner still collects his guaranteed ground rent for 25 years and also compensation for not being able to use his land for other purposes such as agriculture and the Government (we) also pays for the demolition of the turbines.

Just surprised more posters haven't looked into it for themselves.

It is all about money as there are better alternatives such as water turbines, more efficient, produce more energy, cheaper to build and maintain, and of course less profits for the rich which is why they have been dismissed.

Nobody mentions the costs of electric cars, nobody mentions the weight of the batteries for commercial vehicles where they significantly reduce their payload, nobody mentions the shortage of raw materials such as "rare earths" for rare earth motors which by its very name tells us they are rare and finite, nobody mentions the self combustion of car batteries or the fact the fire brigade cannot fight battery car fires as water has no positive effects only negative effects, or the fact car batteries are now hitting 800 volts and if you are in an accident with an electric car you and everyone else can be electricuted by 800 volts of DC power.

Interestingly it was recently that a Reanault Zoe owner had a near miss with his children, they have an inherent fault which is the windscreen seals leaking and they leak water into the footwell and the main battery connections are right under the drivers footwell (UK models RHD) and while the connections are well protected from the road they have little protection from water inside the vehicle and his children were playing in the footwell which was full of water, maybe he shouldn't have let his children play there, but the fact water entered these connections through the footwell was enough for him to get rid of the car, and most are made from that highly conductive material, steel.

There are many more negatives and I would advocate people research it for themselves and find out what we are not being told and it becomes very interesting, even the latest research showing the latest diesels actually clean up many city centres has been squashed as it also shows most pollution is not from cars, but industrial pollution, and not obtain the agenda pushing media hype who openly promote Government agendas are not accurate sources of information.

Raises an eyebrow.

Also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element

Despite their name, rare-earth elements are – with the exception of the radioactive promethium – relatively plentiful in Earth's crust, with cerium being the 25th most abundant element at 68 parts per million, more abundant than copper. However, because of their geochemical properties, rare-earth elements are typically dispersed and not often found concentrated in rare-earth minerals; as a result economically exploitable ore deposits are less common.[5] The first rare-earth mineral discovered (1787) was gadolinite, a mineral composed of cerium, yttrium, iron, silicon, and other elements. This mineral was extracted from a mine in the village of Ytterby in Sweden; four of the rare-earth elements bear names derived from this single location.

 

[cheb]

Electric vehicle will become interesting to me when they have a range and convenience closer to my current van. A real range, in winter, of at least 400miles would be a start.

 

[Nick DV]

Electric vehicle will become interesting to me when they have a range and convenience closer to my current van. A real range, in winter, of at least 400miles would be a start.

Absolutely. Despite what the ads say, all of our Tesla's are sub 300 mile range, and the Kia's (not Hyundai's as I previously said ) are also sub 300 miles. Nice cars though

 

[Jay1st]

The Germans went all out on renewables, solar, wind and all that and closed and demolished their coal fired power stations. Then they discovered they could not power themselves, and had to go to the Russians and buy gas from them.

The germans powered up their latest coal powerplant in may 20

1,100-MW Datteln 4

 

[Burdekin]

Getting a presentation today on leasing a electric or hybrid car as a benefit through work, will be interesting to see what they say. Initial thoughts are a lot of money each month and as we don’t drive much anyhow in town it’s not really much of a greener option running a new hybrid. Electric we don’t have any infrastructure at home to charge a car at the moment so would be a hassle to have to drive and park up somewhere to charge. I mainly cycle in town and my current car is a 50yo Volvo. My wife has a modern petrol car that we may change at the end of the year, we aren’t high mileage users and need to see if we go for a hybrid.

 

[Nick DV]

Getting a presentation today on leasing a electric or hybrid car as a benefit through work, will be interesting to see what they say. Initial thoughts are a lot of money each month and as we don’t drive much anyhow in town it’s not really much of a greener option running a new hybrid. Electric we don’t have any infrastructure at home to charge a car at the moment so would be a hassle to have to drive and park up somewhere to charge. I mainly cycle in town and my current car is a 50yo Volvo. My wife has a modern petrol car that we may change at the end of the year, we aren’t high mileage users and need to see if we go for a hybrid.

I think that in your case being low mileage people, the outlay for a hybrid or electric car, may not be worth it, although a hybrid would be better given there are few charging points around. The hybrids are pretty expensive to purchase, however, they hold their value very well, (we have mainly Toyota), the mpg is excellent, and they are extremely reliable. We've just sold a Prius with 310k miles on the clock and it's never had a problem!

 

[daleyd]

In reality the environmental argument doesn't stack up yet, recent environmental tests showed it takes the same environmental emissions to produce one currently popular electric car battery as it takes to build and run a 5.0L american saloon running on petrol for 7 years and that is just the battery and the rest of the car has to be built, also; they cannot be recycled despite claims to the contrary as economics means recycling has to be profitible and only 3 major elements can be recycled with quite low efficiency and the rest of the battery has to be dumped.

Also remember they only tell you what they want you to know, they never mention the cost in energy of obtaining the elements that make up the battery, the fact most of it is mined and often using children, or the fact that wind turbines kill many flying animals and they employ teams to regularly clean them up before daylight so people don't see them, they never mention the Government report which shows solar panels are financial losses for those installing them, so it comes down to money and who makes it.

Most wind turbines are on land owned by wealthy individuals or large corporations, so why? they negotiate a deal to lease their land to a wind turbine operator and the operator negotiates an annual price for (usually) 20 years, they pay ground rent and usually a percentage of electricity sales profits, the operator then commissions the wind turbines and installs them and it doesn't even matter if they produce electricity or not as the landowner still gets paid, so where is the scam? Governments ring fence and guarantee the ground rents for 25 years (taxpayers money, yours and mine) and if the operator goes bust the landowner still collects his guaranteed ground rent for 25 years and also compensation for not being able to use his land for other purposes such as agriculture and the Government (we) also pays for the demolition of the turbines.

Just surprised more posters haven't looked into it for themselves.

It is all about money as there are better alternatives such as water turbines, more efficient, produce more energy, cheaper to build and maintain, and of course less profits for the rich which is why they have been dismissed.

Nobody mentions the costs of electric cars, nobody mentions the weight of the batteries for commercial vehicles where they significantly reduce their payload, nobody mentions the shortage of raw materials such as "rare earths" for rare earth motors which by its very name tells us they are rare and finite, nobody mentions the self combustion of car batteries or the fact the fire brigade cannot fight battery car fires as water has no positive effects only negative effects, or the fact car batteries are now hitting 800 volts and if you are in an accident with an electric car you and everyone else can be electricuted by 800 volts of DC power.

Interestingly it was recently that a Reanault Zoe owner had a near miss with his children, they have an inherent fault which is the windscreen seals leaking and they leak water into the footwell and the main battery connections are right under the drivers footwell (UK models RHD) and while the connections are well protected from the road they have little protection from water inside the vehicle and his children were playing in the footwell which was full of water, maybe he shouldn't have let his children play there, but the fact water entered these connections through the footwell was enough for him to get rid of the car, and most are made from that highly conductive material, steel.

There are many more negatives and I would advocate people research it for themselves and find out what we are not being told and it becomes very interesting, even the latest research showing the latest diesels actually clean up many city centres has been squashed as it also shows most pollution is not from cars, but industrial pollution, and not obtain the agenda pushing media hype who openly promote Government agendas are not accurate sources of information.

Do you have any sources or links for any of that, as some of it sounds just made up to me. I don’t have an axe to grind either way, but I think there are myths and misconceptions on all sides of the argument.

 

[ronan]

I think that in your case being low mileage people, the outlay for a hybrid or electric car, may not be worth it, although a hybrid would be better given there are few charging points around. The hybrids are pretty expensive to purchase, however, they hold their value very well, (we have mainly Toyota), the mpg is excellent, and they are extremely reliable. We've just sold a Prius with 310k miles on the clock and it's never had a problem!

I would have thought the opposite, people pottering around, going to the local shops, dropping and collecting the kids from school and the like, the electric car would be ideal ? For someone driving from London to Glasgow a few times a week, then petrol/diesel cars would still be the job ?

 

[Nick DV]

I would have thought the opposite, people pottering around, going to the local shops, dropping and collecting the kids from school and the like, the electric car would be ideal ? For someone driving from London to Glasgow a few times a week, then petrol/diesel cars would still be the job ?

The only reason I said that an electric vehicle wouldn't work for @Burdekin was that he said there was no charging infrastructure in the area. The London to Glasgow type of journeys is when the hybrids come into there own - I have a Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid and regularly return 65+mpg for all driving

 

[Jay1st]

The only reason I said that an electric vehicle wouldn't work for @Burdekin was that he said there was no charging infrastructure in the area. The London to Glasgow type of journeys is when the hybrids come into there own - I have a Toyota Corolla Estate hybrid and regularly return 65+mpg for all driving

Funny hwo you guys use the metric system for decades and still use MPG for fuel consumption