electric car...

[tlovatt]

So what happens to people that can’t afford to buy a brand new car?

You can join the many many other people that cannot afford to buy a new car and lease one!

In reality prices will come down and the tax breaks given to company car drivers will start to seed to used car market. Also note some companies only lease you the batteries, so when they need replacing it is the manufacturers cost not yours (but you do have to pay a monthly fee)

 

[Shox Dr]

You can join the many many other people that cannot afford to buy a new car and lease one!

I cant ever see a EV costing 300quid

 

[eddie49]

So what happens to people that can’t afford to buy a brand new car?
Wait for an unreliable second hand ev that the batteries goosed as it’s had too many quick charges?

Rapid charging doesn't always ruin EV batteries:

"Some interesting statistics about real-world lithium-ion battery life and number of charge cycles:
This is from a dealer who specialises in used EVs, and is about a car they recently bought in. It was a Nissan Leaf - the most popular ( and most ugly ) electric car:
First registered 2015, it has covered 120,000 miles, which is very high for an EV.
Actual battery voltage is 378v, actual capacity is 56.9 Ah. Original ( new ) capacity was 66 Ah. So the state of health ( SoH ) is 87%, which represents a 1% battery degradation per 10,000 miles travelled.
The battery has 192 lithium cells, arranged as a series string of 96 units, each is 2 cells in parallel ( 96S2P ). Lowest unit 3.924v highest 3.950v average 3.938v, so the maximum cell difference is only 26mV.
The most interesting data ( all stored on-board ) concerns charging: the car has been rapid-charged 4224 times. That is at public charge points, using 500v DC at 125A ( the CHAdeMO system ), which can provide an 80% recharge in about half an hour.
It's now been sold. I don't know what the price was."

Quote Reply

 

[Shox Dr]

Rapid charging doesn't always ruin EV batteries:

"Some interesting statistics about real-world lithium-ion battery life and number of charge cycles:
This is from a dealer who specialises in used EVs, and is about a car they recently bought in. It was a Nissan Leaf - the most popular ( and most ugly ) electric car:
First registered 2015, it has covered 120,000 miles, which is very high for an EV.
Actual battery voltage is 378v, actual capacity is 56.9 Ah. Original ( new ) capacity was 66 Ah. So the state of health ( SoH ) is 87%, which represents a 1% battery degradation per 10,000 miles travelled.
The battery has 192 lithium cells, arranged as a series string of 96 units, each is 2 cells in parallel ( 96S2P ). Lowest unit 3.924v highest 3.950v average 3.938v, so the maximum cell difference is only 26mV.
The most interesting data ( all stored on-board ) concerns charging: the car has been rapid-charged 4224 times. That is at public charge points, using 500v DC at 125A ( the CHAdeMO system ), which can provide an 80% recharge in about half an hour.
It's now been sold. I don't know what the price was."

Quote Reply

IF it was only charged via rapid charge thats every 28miles on average. At how many hours? A petrol even at 20mpg with a 50litre (200miles per tank) tank would require 600 fills

Ive better things to do with my life

 

[Robbie260]

I'll just leave this here....... CLICK HERE

Just don't expect one in a showroom near you, any time soon.

To be honest that's what I have always seen as the solution, internal combustion engines don't require huge amounts of precious metals etc making this the cheapest way of getting greener transport eventually.

 

[jimbo84]

It only has a range of 265 miles to compare it to those criticising EV range and the tank self empties itself. You've got all the unreliability of an ICE.

Once batteries reach end of life in an EV (over 10 years) they can be removed and used for solar storage. This is already happening. 1st gen leafs are already having batteries swapped out giving the car a new lease of life, for potentially another 10 years, and the old batteries are going on in other uses for many years, I'd say it was a very efficient use of the materials used to make them. Batteries and their management systems are getting better and better increasing the life of the vehicles.

 

[stuvy]

But the extra wear and tear on the cars due to the extra battery weight surely limits the running gear life time?

 

[Revs1972]

I took a couple of test drives in a Kia eNiro. I was very impressed with it , but ultimately it was a bit small for me with 2 kids and a dog. A lot of my journeys are quite short with the occasional long trip ( these will increase again in the future). I would like something that is BIK efficient (EV's now in the low £100's rather than £0), but will let me do a 500 mile round trip with just one stop. Im toying with the idea of a LR Discovery Sport PHEV (albeit a couple of £k in BIK) for the ICE backup, then waiting a few more years so there is more of a choice.
( although i quite like the look of the Skoda Enyaq , just need to see one in the flesh)

 

[mtt.tr]

Reliability will certainly go up with EV far less happening mechanically

 

[Ali]

still cleaner than oil

Doesn’t the electricity to charge them come from fossil fuels (mostly)?

 

[Shox Dr]

Doesn’t the electricity to charge them come from fossil fuels (mostly)?

DOnt be daft, windmills made by Elves, powered by fairy dust

 

[Shox Dr]

DOnt be daft, windmills made by Elves, powered by fairy dust

I'm sorry it has been pointed out they are powered by wind... from politician's arses

 

[toddy]

I'm sorry it has been pointed out they are powered by wind... from politician's arses

so is that why it is still free to drive EV's in london (cc and Ulez exempted)

 

[jimbo84]

The elves and fairy dust are't doing too bad today

 

[Shox Dr]

The elves and fairy dust are't doing too bad today

View attachment 282857

All without the help of been dug out the ground, smelted, hot rolled, welded, transported, erected, and dismantled to be buried because they arent recycleable. All. Without the use offossil fuel. Yeah really clean

 

[stuvy]

All without the help of been dug out the ground, smelted, hot rolled, welded, transported, erected, and dismantled to be buried because they arent recycleable. All. Without the use offossil fuel. Yeah really clean

greenpeace hates realists

 

[Robbie260]

It only has a range of 265 miles to compare it to those criticising EV range and the tank self empties itself. You've got all the unreliability of an ICE.

Once batteries reach end of life in an EV (over 10 years) they can be removed and used for solar storage. This is already happening. 1st gen leafs are already having batteries swapped out giving the car a new lease of life, for potentially another 10 years, and the old batteries are going on in other uses for many years, I'd say it was a very efficient use of the materials used to make them. Batteries and their management systems are getting better and better increasing the life of the vehicles.

265 miles is fine if you can stop refill and be gone again in 5 minutes ok it's a bit of a pain but not too much (no worse than a heavily loaded van or 4x4 towing a trailer), I don't have 40 mins to stand around waiting on a car to recharge every 170 too 200 miles or so as I'm speaking in terms of an electric car I could possibly afford not a all singing and dancing super long range machine. Do long journeys quite often, recently drove from Fort William to Southampton only stopped for a grand total of 20 mins on the whole way down ounce refill the car and the gents and second time stretch legs and gents.

 

[tlovatt]

But the extra wear and tear on the cars due to the extra battery weight surely limits the running gear life time?

EVs are not actually that much heavier than a lot of ICE cars, plus if it was determined just by weight the most unreliable vehicles on the road would be HGVs.

Modern cars for the most part seem to suffer relatively few mechanical problems except the engines themselves, most seem to be electrical problems nowadays.

 

[tlovatt]

IF it was only charged via rapid charge thats every 28miles on average. At how many hours? A petrol even at 20mpg with a 50litre (200miles per tank) tank would require 600 fills

Ive better things to do with my life

The early Leafs did have a very limited range, about 70 miles for real world use so it would only have been a second car used for tootling around, even now with the bigger batteries, they are a relatively small car to use for regular long journeys. What can be seen from the Leaf though is that the batteries tend to hold up quite well to a fair amount of use.

Plug in hybrids will give the best indication of how well batteries will last (tend to get cycled a lot more and worked much harder in terms of power input / output per cell) and manufacturers are offering 120km warranties on some of them, so they have a reasonable degree of confidence.

Single peddle driving mode is nice in the Leaf though (although the majority of the car has suffered from a lack of development since the early days)

 

[Matchless]

Nothing is as green as we think if we follow the full life, from raw material to recycle

My 1929 Dodge is really quite green, original drive train, body, wheels, yes it has been restored once and repainted many times etc. but I bet it's whole life carbon footprint is very small even at 20-25mpg.