dry oil filter

[norsa]

Yes i removed the pick up pipe and filter. You're looking at it upside down.

 

[rtbcomp]

With a new filter if the relief valve was stuck closed oil would circulate through the filter, if it was stuck open it would still circulate through the relief valve. It's normal working position is closed so oil is forced through the outside of the filter along its length, into the centre and back up through the hole in the thread attached to the block. Either way you'd expect oil in the can.

Have a look inside the block through the oil pump ports. Are there any holes that shouldn't there, eg a core plug missing?

 

[rtbcomp]

Google "Dry oil filter" seems a common problem, although I haven't found an answer, one question that does keep cropping up though : "Is it a Fram?"

 

[the snooper]

If that filter is totally bone dry and not a drop of oil in it then I woukd suspect the feed to it is blocked, even if the filter was blocked you would get some oil in there untill it compressed any air in it, what you need to find out is, if the valve on the engine is a pressure relief or a bypass valve, if it's a bypass valve it will explain why your engine isn't ruined

 

[colnerov]

Hi, Fram filters don't have a very good reputation, there are plenty of video's on youtube pulling them to bits. I think in this case it's just a case of the anti drain valve not sealing sufficiently and has drained back. How long was the engine stood not being used for?

Colin

 

[the snooper]

Google "Dry oil filter" seems a common problem, although I haven't found an answer, one question that does keep cropping up though : "Is it a Fram?"

It says fram on the side of it

 

[the snooper]

Hi, Fram filters don't have a very good reputation, there are plenty of video's on youtube pulling them to bits. I think in this case it's just a case of the anti drain valve not sealing sufficiently and has drained back. How long was the engine stood not being used for?

Colin

But looking at the filter cut open unless the oil was as clean as the day it was made there hasn't been any in there plus new oil would soon discolour due to residue of old oil in the engine, it's a strange one

 

[colnerov]

If that filter is totally bone dry and not a drop of oil in it then I woukd suspect the feed to it is blocked, even if the filter was blocked you would get some oil in there untill it compressed any air in it, what you need to find out is, if the valve on the engine is a pressure relief or a bypass valve, if it's a bypass valve it will explain why your engine isn't ruined

Hi, The oil pressure relief valve is in the engine block, the oil filter bypass valve is in the filter it self. The oil pressure valve is the to protect from over pressure (obviously, I have known filters to burst) The bypass valve is there for when the filter element blocks.

Colin

 

[rtbcomp]

If that filter is totally bone dry and not a drop of oil in it then I woukd suspect the feed to it is blocked, even if the filter was blocked you would get some oil in there untill it compressed any air in it, what you need to find out is, if the valve on the engine is a pressure relief or a bypass valve, if it's a bypass valve it will explain why your engine isn't ruined

It's a relief valve on the block, bypass is in the filter, post #20 shows this quite clearly.

 

[colnerov]

But looking at the filter cut open unless the oil was as clean as the day it was made there hasn't been any in there plus new oil would soon discolour due to residue of old oil in the engine, it's a strange one

Hi, It only did 800 mls on the new oil.

Colin

 

[the snooper]

Hi, It only did 800 mls on the new oil.

Colin

I can't see it still been clear after 800 I'm sure nick will give us the answer

 

[the snooper]

It's a relief valve on the block, bypass is in the filter, post #20 shows this quite clearly.

I saw the pic but my thinking was if nothing went through that filter it had to be reaching the big ends some how or they would have been destroyed and I can't see any residue at all in the filter, but we don't know what the colour of the filter media was when new either if it was white then it's had oil

Edit it was an earlier picture I saw, from the picture you mention in post 20 oil has to have passed through the filter

 

[zx9]

I think I would be making up an adaptor to spin up the oil pump with an electric drill. The pump on the Rangie needed to be packed with vassaline for it to prime when dry, I don't know if that is common to other old engines, then put the oil pick up pipe in a jar of oil and spin her up.

 

[500e]

Standard oil pump design garethp.
The oil HAS to go through the filter to get to main\ big end & cam bearings also to lube rocker shaft, follow the oil flow diagram.
The sump gasket looks an aftermarket product & appears to have sealant on it ? has the motor been pulled down just before you had it it looks very clean internally this could account for clean oil, how clean was the old oil you removed black & gungy or black & clean (difficult to explain what I mean)
I think it has drained down & you are over thinking the problem, but we have all been there at some time or another, again personalty I would have fitted a pressure gauge before stripping motor, the only way for the oil to bypass filter is a cracked block ! I have seen this on an old engine that was frost damaged the crack was running from the thread on oil filter allowing oil to escape into return channel but that was the least of the problem.
If you have checked pump turns OK so not a drive fault, blow air through the slot in the oil filter housing it should come out of the oil pump doubt if you will get that much pressure in there, just check it is not leaking anywhere else, that covers the pump to filter bit the blow air down center hole you should see oil exiting rocker oil feed hole & other places I think there was gasket between pump & block,
this is all out of the dim recesses of my mind & at least 30 years old
Still think it is filter problem but now you are there drop a big end & main look at bearings

 

[norsa]

Thanks to everyone for the input. Yes MGOC have the valve listed as relief. The filter element as i said is bone dry. I think I'll try my theory along the lines of the last post and spin the camshaft with the pump pick up in a beaker. My high pressure race engine pumps had to be primed but not sure an old Triumph lump would need it

 

[rtbcomp]

Squeeze a bit of the element between your fingers and see if you get an oil residue on them. If so then I'd say oil has drained out of the filter whilst it was stood.

This in itself is a problem, because the cannister will have to refill after a period of non-use, thus delaying oil to the moving parts, which may themselves have lost the oil from when it was last used. If this has happened blame the anti-drain valve in the filter.

I wouldn't blame the pump, if the oil light went out like you said, you're getting pressure.

 

[penfold]

I suspect the valve was upside down. In the last picture showing the bung of the plunger. It would have been against the end of the can so can't open either way? Question is, how could the oil still circulate??

The only way is if the diagram is inaccurate and when the relief valve opens it passes into the oil distribution gallery and onwards around the engine rather than dumping to the sump as drawn; I don't like the idea of having such a poorly designed oil circuit.

 

[rtbcomp]

^^ You're confusing the relief valve and the bypass valve. Norsa was referring to the bypass valve in the cannister, the diagram of the lubrication system is correct, the relief valve dumps oil into the sump.

 

[penfold]

I'm not confusing anything, I answered his question. It's a bad design; if the relief valve fails open your engine lunches itself.

 

[rtbcomp]

It's not a bad design - where else can the relief valve dispose of excess oil pressure apart from dumping oil back to the sump?