Drills 'n' Saws

[Gonflage]

Hello fellow Miggers.

I hope I have not joined you under false pretences as I frankly know d***-all about welding, other than to wish I had your particular skill.

I came here by chance before becoming a member, while contemplating the purchase of a pillar drill. All I knew was that I wanted something from the goods old days of British cast-iron. Courtesy of Mr Google, I concluded that the most knowledgeable people on the subject were to be found here.

After much advice and reassurance gleaned here, I ended up buying an Elliot Progress No.1, you know,the tall version, all 146kgs of it. Perhaps I may speak further of it when it finally arrives here ("here" is a farmhouse in S W France).

I know that this is a metal-bashers (I use the term respectfully) forum but I have read only today that I am not alone among members in being something a of hewer of logs and so without going totally off-topic I would like to ask if honourable members can recommend the equivalent manufacturers of a similar quality of table saw, also in old cast iron. (Wadkin perhaps ?)

Thanks for favours already rendered and perhaps others still to come.

 

[rtbcomp]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your choice of pillar drill!

 

[Gonflage]

Good evening rtbcomp.

Thank you on both counts !

 

[bump]

If you can get any Wadkin's machinery you'll be laughing. Built like a tank, and just keep on going.

 

[Gonflage]

Thanks Bump.

That's what I thought although even today I suspect that i would have to pay the price of a tank. As long as I can have something with a c.i. table deck and not a pressed oriental tin one.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Welcome Mr Blow-up...

Have a look on leboncoin, sometimes has good kit.

Where in SW France? I am close to Rochefort.
KF

I saw a whole workshop going as a unit. For making proper spoked wagon wheels.

 

[Gonflage]

Welcome Mr Blow-up...

Have a look on leboncoin, sometimes has good kit.

Where in SW France? I am close to Rochefort.
KF

I saw a whole workshop going as a unit. For making proper spoked wagon wheels.

Bonjour Monsieur Grenouille...

Thanks for the suggestion of Leboncoin. I had looked there for my drill and on frog-bay but the ones that really caught my eye were those originally made by a couple of blokes called Syd and Eric sold under the brand name Syderic. Syderic is still in business and indeed did produce a nice piece of kit. I went after one at 100 euros, didn't argue too much over price but the seller suddenly backed out - I think he had discovered that these were going for around 900 euros. Pity as I would happily have driven halfway across France to get it instead of paying more to get my Progress here than I paid for the drill itself.

Did you actually buy the wagon wheel kit ?

Which Rochefort ? Rochefort-on-sea ? We are between Souillac and Rocamadour in the Lot.

I suspect we will talk again.

Thanks again.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Rochefort-sur-merde (as one friend put it)

The vendors of the wagon wheel (remember the choccy one?) were trying to sell the kit complete to encourage someone to continue tradition. But I was not looking for a new career........
KF

 

[Gonflage]

Rochefort-sur-merde (as one friend put it)

The vendors of the wagon wheel (remember the choccy one?) were trying to sell the kit complete to encourage someone to continue tradition. But I was not looking for a new career........
KF

Don't friends like that just take the (choccy) biscuit ?

 

[KemppiFrog]

Hah yes.

I put a friend's old 3 ph combination machine on LBC. Good solid three motor planer/thicknesser/saw/spindle moulder. And it was snapped up for 1,200 euro. Was fun loading at 500kg.

Guy in Ireland is selling a planer/thicknesser over on the 'for sale' list. No takers, so fancy a trip?

 

[Gonflage]

Elliot New Progress No.1 Drill

Hello all.

The Elliot New Progress No.1 Drill has finally arrived here in France and I’m sure my back will soon get better, thank you for asking.

The drill is soooo smooth and quiet and with virtually no vibration. Not a ripple in the coffee cup which sits on its own little cast iron table which itself weighs more than most drills from the sheds. That’s real engineering. That is what the little table is for, isn't it ?

At 150kgs, the drill is so stable that it almost doesn’t need fixing down. However if it did tip over, it would probably be terminal, for me if not for the drill

So I have just ordered some Rawlbolts from the UK. As KemppiFrog probably knows, these are astronomically expensive in France so worth importing even with postage on top.

I have no instructions with the drill, only some basic information and a partial parts list very kindly provided by Mr Richard Miles at Gate Machinery. Therefore finding my way around the drill is proving quite exciting if that is the right word. What is this little T-shaped handle on the side of the head ? Doesn't move at all. Pull, push, twist - won't budge. Perhaps some precision work is called for here. Grab it with the mole wrench and in the words of the late Mr Ronnie Barker, "jiggle it about a bit". Result: Clang ! The top cover shot up exposing the pulleys and belt. That's ingenious. Thought I'd have to undo a couple of screws every time I wanted to change speed - that or leave off the cover permanently. Perhaps that’s why so many drills appear online without a lid at all.

This has shown up the fact that the drive belt is loose enough to be levered from one speed to the next, without changing the tension. There is clearly an adjustment between the drill head and the motor mounting plate. On each side of the head there are cast-in cylinders with, I assume, pistons which theoretically allow in and out movement of the motor mounting plate. In addition there are simple bolts on either side which would clamp the pistons. However I have not yet found out how to move these pistons. Even with the bolts loosened or even removed they don’t budge. I am now waiting on the results of a quick squirt of WD. However even if this does free up the pistons there does not seem to be a simple way of adjusting tension every time I want to change speed. I cannot believe that one sets the tension and leaves it, merely using leverage to move the belt as required. Too crude for such an otherwise elegant piece of engineering. I hope it will not be necessary to remove the motor to sort out the mounting as I suspect it is already making a big contribution to the overall weight.

The work table has a tilt facility which seems to simply require the loosening of a very large bolt. This won’t budge and I am nervous about resorting to gbh so again I am waiting on the WD. There appears to be a hole below the bolt which might accommodate a locking pin to ensure horizontality (!). No such pin is in evidence though.

My next problem is/will be the raising and lowering of the worktable. This is also a big lump and I have read of various Heath Robinson methods of moving it up and down, given that it does not have a rack and pinion system such as you see on Chaiwanese drills with tables that you could lift with one hand. I suppose I could use the Haltrac hoist I employed to help me assemble the whole shooting match.

I have never before owned a tool that was more than twice my weight, so before I damage either of us I need the help of someone who knows his way around a Progress No.1 and can tell me more about it.

What more can I say ? Oh yes, THANK YOU.

 

[pedrobedro]

The drill is soooo smooth and quiet and with virtually no vibration. Not a ripple in the coffee cup which sits on its own little cast iron table which itself weighs more than most drills from the sheds. That’s real engineering. That is what the little table is for, isn't it ?.

Yes you put the cup on there and a spoon in the chuck then lower the head to stir it. It does seem a lot of effort but it's so much better than the old fashioned manual method.

 

[ford34/2]

leaflet

Hears the leaflet from years ago, there are a few companys selling copy manuals, if you are very lucky there may have been one for the Progress.The Company might well still exist:
Try contacting them here:

B. Elliott Group Limited
Boden House,
114-120 Victoria Road
London
NW10 6NY,
UK

Tel: +44 (0)20 8961 7333
Fax: +44(0)20 8961 8771

email: info@belliott.com


Steve Lilliman at Premier machine tools has a manual listed:
http://www.machinemanuals.co.uk/default.asp?cat=Drilling Machine Manuals
£9.95

regards
Stan

 

[rtbcomp]

Well done that man! You have a PM

If you do get a manual, take the bearing sizes with a pinch of salt and measure the ones in your drill before ordering replacements.

I use a scissor jack to raise & lower the table.

To adjust belt tension, slacken the screws holding the "pistons" and physically move the motor.

The belt is better on the slack side so if the drill grabs the belt will just slip.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Hello all.
So I have just ordered some Rawlbolts from the UK. As KemppiFrog probably knows, these are astronomically expensive in France so worth importing even with postage on top..

Sounds like a really good bit of kit.

As for rawlbolts, for the odd ones I need I go to Brico Depot. Quite close and not expensive. Normally I use epoxy or quick cement as even cheaper. But I do build boats as well, so lots of epoxy about.

Brico Depot is under the same ownership as B&Q, much cheaper than Mr.Bricolage or BricoMarche.
KF

 

[rtbcomp]

This is my Progress #2, there are some similarities

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=31600

 

[Gonflage]

Good morning pedrobedro. Thanks for the reassurance on this. I had assumed it was something on these lines. I was musing over filing the spoon handle to fit the chuck or would an old paint stirrer do ? Bowing to your obviously greater engineering experience in these matters, may I ask the speed you would recommend for this somewhat critical operation ?


Hello Stan / ford34/2. Sadly B. Elliott Group seem to have disappeared as have another company I have tried, Elliott Machine Tools of Peterborough. Not sure if they had simply taken over the name or were actually the same company. I will certainly have a look at Premier Machine Tools.



Hi Rtbcomp. I will try to remember your dictum re bearing sizes, although at the moment I haven’t been able to check these by the level of run-out at the chuck as I am still debating on the purchase of a dial test indicator (Mitutoyo well thought of, anybody ?). Using a 1mm drill bit there is no visual wavering at the tip which probably indicates sufficient accuracy for wood but when I become a “proper engineer” I may take a rather more critical look at things.

I like the idea of a scissor jack, particularly as I know there is a spare one kicking about the garage. As my drill is floor-standing I would probably have to tack a piece of tubing to the top of the jack or use different lengths of timber as the job of the day dictated.

I am reassured by your comments on the “piston” set-up and even more by the photographs which show the piston set-up exactly like mine. I suppose sometimes simplest is best. I am waiting on the WD doing its stuff although I may need to make use of a couple of handy steel wedges to free them up. I will probably have to bite the bullet and remove the motor first.

“The belt is better on the slack side so if the drill grabs the belt will just slip.” You’re just saying that to make me feel better, aren’t you ?

“Some similarities ?” My paintwork is at a similar level to that in your “before” photo, although it is in a pleasing shade of Almost British Racing Green. What a pity that previous artists did not remove the previous thick layers of paint which give it slightly rustic although admittedly rust-free appearance. When was grit-blasting invented ? I much like your new grey. Was it done to match your cat ? I hope he or she was grey originally. You wouldn’t have…Nah, of course not.



Bonjour K/Frog. I too am a Brico Depot enthusiast but as my nearest one is in Brive about 30kms away I only go there when I can make a whole day of it, visiting a bunch of other places. Otherwise getting there makes their good prices no better than the other sheds you mention. Point P actually wanted 9 euros each for them, whereas I paid £1.38 each including post from UK to France.

 

[rtbcomp]

Sandblasting was used on pre 1900 cars.