Detecting heating pipes beneath floor boards

[Craig-SM]

Fit a double rad of the same pipe fitting dimensions, and run it at a lower temp?

Why can't you take the valves off the existing pipes, fit elbows and short stubs, then refit in line valves? No destruction required.

first off what is the size difference between the old and new rads

if its 1-2" you can buy extenders and there is bigger extenders if needed

but also note if extenders are used you may need to change the valves as well

The current radiator is about 10 feet long in a bay window and the pipes are wedged/cut into the skirting board corners. Between the radiator itself and the pipe work it looks a mess.

He had thought about running a type 22 at half the height for the same length but silly money and still leaves the mess with the pipes so tight into the skirting. Instead he’s going to fit a 2m type 22 and replace the hacked up skirting as it’s bugged him since he moved in and it’s in a focal point so wants it looking neat.

 

[Craig-SM]

About the pipes, if the boards run left to right under the radiator then take a couple up and adjust the pipes, if they run the other way it's lots more work so worth considering just extending the pipes inward or finding a rad the same size.

Unfortunately length ways ending at the radiator wall hence trying to minimise the amount of boards cut and lifted

 

[knighty]

15mm pipe? Any chance of running it behind the skirting while he's sorting that?

 

[George A2Y]

My brother is wanting to fit a double radiator in place of the old huge and starting to rust single that is currently fitted. The double will be narrower so will need both pipes moving. The problem is he has a beautiful wooden floor and wants to minimise the boards been lifted but has no idea of the pipe layout beneath the boards.
Is it possible to detect the copper pipes through the floor boards, oak around an inch thick, using one of those wall scanners for electrics, batten and pipe work or will it be a case of lifting a floorboard and searching underneath to see where they go?

Could he remove the big radiator and the skirting board then fit the new one in the middle, extend the existing pipe work from where they appear (above the floorboards) to the new valves. Then build a full width custom radiator cover with a new skirting on the bottom and a couple of access doors/ hinged lid for valve adjustment and bleeding.

 

[zzr1200]

Try putting in some screws - that's a guaranteed way of finding a pipe....

I know that one!!!.......

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Is running the pipes in the bay wall an option? Some bays are just made out of timber...lot easier to fix a wall than the oak floor.

I've got a thermal camera...I'll try and see if it works on pipes (I have 20mm oak over pine boards so 40mm of floor)

Update...camera clearly picks up the pipes in the bathroom but I think I didn't lag those.

 

[Bornfree]

I've got an incredible talent of finding pipes and electrical cables by just using a drill. Iam available for a small fee.

 

[gaz1]

The current radiator is about 10 feet long in a bay window and the pipes are wedged/cut into the skirting board corners. Between the radiator itself and the pipe work it looks a mess.

He had thought about running a type 22 at half the height for the same length but silly money and still leaves the mess with the pipes so tight into the skirting. Instead he’s going to fit a 2m type 22 and replace the hacked up skirting as it’s bugged him since he moved in and it’s in a focal point so wants it looking neat.

you can buy 3 seperate rads and still plumb them as one rad to fit a bay window

the rads can be connected in the middle parts via pipes inbetween the rads but id advise 3/4 connections between the rads

 

[jmp49]

I have an infra red thermometer already so can try that just didn’t think the heat would be detected through the floor boards.
Thermal camera, you’re just trying to get me to buy more toys and you know I’m weak willed. I was trying not to buy anything else if I could help it. The wall detector a mate has that I could borrow if needed hence why I wondered if that would work.

I can see the run of the radiant pipework encased in concrete in our underfloor heating slab with a thermal camera.
Just sayin...

 

[hunter27]

I guess from your description it's a downstairs room with a wood oak floor so an older house?
My preference was if at all possible to crawl underneath the floor space to run pipework usually not an option with newer properties. If this is a non starter using a multitool to cut the tongs will make the neatest job.
Extending the valve tails by any amount will look like a bodge.

 

[Craig-SM]

I guess from your description it's a downstairs room with a wood oak floor so an older house?
My preference was if at all possible to crawl underneath the floor space to run pipework usually not an option with newer properties. If this is a non starter using a multitool to cut the tongs will make the neatest job.
Extending the valve tails by any amount will look like a bodge.

Yes, lounge bay window. I don’t think there will be enough space to crawl underneath.
Current thinking is to cut a section out to the nearest joist where the pipe comes up through the floor board closet to the boiler with the theory both the pipes will run next to each other before one branches off to the other end of the radiator. If this is the case then it should just be a case of diverting one pipe to run along next to the branched off pipe and bring them up where needed. Definitely doesn’t want extended pipes or run above the floorboards be they exposed or behind skirting.

 

[Dapph2]

Try putting in some screws - that's a guaranteed way of finding a pipe....

My deceased brother did that one Sunday afternoon. After getting tools etc i drove the 30 mile to his place and took up a large chip board sheet to get to the pipe as it also ran close to the house wirings.

 

[Mark 5]

Yes, lounge bay window. I don’t think there will be enough space to crawl underneath.
Current thinking is to cut a section out to the nearest joist where the pipe comes up through the floor board closet to the boiler with the theory both the pipes will run next to each other before one branches off to the other end of the radiator. If this is the case then it should just be a case of diverting one pipe to run along next to the branched off pipe and bring them up where needed. Definitely doesn’t want extended pipes or run above the floorboards be they exposed or behind skirting.

Avoid cutting further into joists, use the same joist cuts if at all possible.

A couple of photos of how the rad' tails come through the floors might be useful.

 

[brightspark]

the floorboards can be neatly cut with a strait edge and using a multitool the blades are verry thin so wont wreck the boards ive took hardwood floors up without ruining them

 

[Craig-SM]

Avoid cutting further into joists, use the same joist cuts if at all possible.

A couple of photos of how the rad' tails come through the floors might be useful.

I’m hoping that it branches off between the joists as they run parallel with the radiator wall. With luck the first joist will be next to the wall so I can bring the pipes up in front of it which would then roughly right for the offset to line up with radiator tails.
I don’t have photos of the pipes as they come up through the floor as it’s my brothers house. Both pipes are tight into the skirting board in that the wood has been notched in the skirting for them to come up. The pipes are then forced out to join the radiator valves. The whole thing is so tight that the knobs on the lock valves touch the skirting on both the radiator and adjacent walls. It’s something the previous owner had done, or someone for him, and it’s always bugged my brother as the radiator is huge and ugly.

 

[Mark 5]

I’m hoping that it branches off between the joists as they run parallel with the radiator wall. With luck the first joist will be next to the wall so I can bring the pipes up in front of it which would then roughly right for the offset to line up with radiator tails.
I don’t have photos of the pipes as they come up through the floor as it’s my brothers house. Both pipes are tight into the skirting board in that the wood has been notched in the skirting for them to come up. The pipes are then forced out to join the radiator valves. The whole thing is so tight that the knobs on the lock valves touch the skirting on both the radiator and adjacent walls. It’s something the previous owner had done, or someone for him, and it’s always bugged my brother as the radiator is huge and ugly.

You described it perfectly well, I just like photos if possible.

Hopefully pipes will be between joists.

I have often wondered why homeowners/installers, if installation allows, on larger or bay window rads don't center pipe tails under a rad.

It can make life easier although athesticaly it might not look so good.

 

[hunter27]

Both pipes are tight into the skirting board in that the wood has been notched in the skirting for them to come up. The pipes are then forced out to join the radiator valves. The whole thing is so tight that the knobs on the lock valves touch the skirting on both the radiator and adjacent walls.

There is probably very little gap between the joist and the wall. Most installers will prefer to come straight up to the rad valve with the 15mm if possible but don't want to drill right through the joist.

 

[dave h 2]

You can cut, well spilt really, pine floorboard tongues with an old tennon saw, just lay it along the groove and hit the the back with the flat of your hand. Oak might be a little tougher, but it does avoid nacking any pipes or wiring.

 

[Craig-SM]

Found the pipes OK by pulling the first board up by the radiator pipe closest to the boiler and the other radiator pipe ran parallel with the joist. One of the pipes had been leaking, not bad but enough for it to stain the pipe and wet the ground underneath.
Pain in the backside was removing the radiator. It was so tight you couldn’t undo the valves off the tail so had to resort to removing the valve from the pipe and with the valves shut lifted it off the wall brackets. I could have sworn it was still full of water it was that heavy even with two of us heaving on it, a struggle to get it outside too due the length and height of it.
Pipe work diverted, new radiator fitted and system filled and heated up with no leaks, happy days, so boards nailed back down. Floor still looks good if you ignore the hammer head dent from a miss hit by my brother but it could have been worse as he fitted a 22mm spade bit to the drill to cut the new holes for the pipes, I just noticed and managed to yell in time as he put the bit to the floor board.
Removed the new radiator again as the wall behind is a big mess, same with the skirting that had been butchered. He’s going to get the damaged skirting replaced hopefully finding a match and get the whole room redecorated too.
He’s happy now, as is his wife, as it looked much neater and warmed the room up quicker too. The scrap man will be happy too when he picks up the old radiator.

 

[awemawson]

Wet cloth and an iron should raise the hammer dent from the wood.