1. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Also be worth just giving places a phone or even better dropping in to see the boss. First impressions! Maybe old school but got a couple of jobs like that when on the tools and a CV might not even get past the first glance.
    Brad93, Parm, Ashley Burton and 3 others like this.
  2. Munkul Member

    Cumbria, UK
    I've always thought that a cover letter that's written correctly is worth just as much as the CV itself, IMO. Unless you go the less formal route of just chatting to the boss etc.
    But what do I know... I haven't moved far in my career so far, still working for the same company I started with, worked through a few roles now.

    Name and contact details as a header.
    Previous roles/experience, working backwards.
    Education, only the more relevant details like degree etc.
    SMALL bit at the bottom for personal interests.

    Bullet points for everything, stick to the details. Mine is 2 pages, but quite well spaced out...
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  3. Parm

    Parm Let The Games Commence

    I don’t agree with that.

    min my time I’ve looked at more than my fair share of CVs and hired / fired lots of folk

    I think it’s an urban myth this one page cv stuff.

    If your going for a first ever Saturday job then a one pager will be enough. If on the other hand your applying for a senior management role then 2, 3 sometimes 4 pages has to be

    My shortened professional CV is 3 pages long. I will be reading it out in court in a little while when I get my ass in gear
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  4. rtcosic

    rtcosic Member

    It's horses for courses.

    If you are applying to a large corporate first you have to get through the Automated Applicant Tracking system. Then you have to get through the junior HR flake who knows nothing of the job requirements but everything about 'keywords' (current buzzwords), 'core competencies' etc. Then you have to get through the senior HR flake so they can check the junior's work and justify their existence. Then and only then might your CV actually be read by a human being with any idea of what is required.

    If it is Public Sector there are probably many other layers to wade through but I'm not familiar with them.

    If you are applying to an SME your application may go direct to the owner-manager.
    jenki, bletchmonster, Parm and 2 others like this.
  5. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

    moscow on thames
    Fired lots of folk! must mean you were fooled by quite a few CV`s Parm :laughing:

    Our out to lunch bunch as a group employ about three hundred staff, I am only a minnow amongst them with fifteen or so. None of them like long-drawn-out CV`s, perhaps its because we are just a bunch of oikes :laughing:

, zx9, stuvy and 1 other person like this.
  6. mpats

    mpats Forum Supporter

    I might be wrong on this but from what I know, CV is to get you an interview, interview is to get you the job.
    My CV is pretty much 2 full pages and has been tailored to the job I've been applying for. Made easier by the fact it was an internal application both times but still enquired a CV good enough to get you an interview.
  7. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    that’s a very good point tailoring it to the job in question
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  8. Parm

    Parm Let The Games Commence

    Absolutely, yes 100%

    Its easy to talk the talk both on paper and then at interview

    An altogether different game when its boots on the ground time.

    In my private sector role we had a very strict 3 month rule.

    First 2 weeks it was fired on the day, then for the next 4 weeks it was a weeks notice

    Ultimate was the 3 month probationary interview, which didn't always end well

    If there was some promise but not enough evidence then probation would often be extended by another 3 months
    stuvy, 8ob and Kayos like this.
  9. Munkul Member

    Cumbria, UK
    Maybe I'm just harsh, but I'd have loved to say "you're fired" to some people I've had the displeasure of working with.
    Problem is, some roles take a few months for the person to get into their stride properly. We reckon for some staff roles it takes up to 6 months, if you're not at full speed in 6 months then you'll probably be pushed... not fired, but gently pushed towards "somewhere else that might be a better fit"
  10. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Forum Supporter

    essex england
    Exactly. With a normal firm you talk to the Forman, engineers. Basically they people directly involved with your job title.
    With big fancy firms you need to charm the HR dept.
    A few years ago I lost the faith and decided to get employed. Got interviewed by HR and got the job but not one technical question by a engineer.
    Had to lie my head off pretending to be social people person :D
    Milkybars,, stuvy and 6 others like this.
  11. awemawson Forum Supporter

    OK some years back, but when I was recruiting Engineers for industrial computer field service I'd get so many responses that trawling through the pile of CV's you had literally seconds to decide if they were 'possibles' or 'no thank you's '

    Once you had the 'possibles' pile than you could refine and grade it into those worth interviewing, and rank them. First rank get invited in for interview, the other are kept on the back burner as reserves.

    So: Two pages maximum, bullet points of key features right up front, and a recent passport sized, but colour, photo attached to top right hand corner (most visible place when flicking through a pile.

    And good luck John, I hope that you find somewhere where you are happier
  12. Ashley Burton

    Ashley Burton Member

    Quite a few jobs I've got over the years is by actually stepping out my front door & visiting people

    CV's have to be one of the worst things invented, They're just boring

    Once you've read one you've lost interest & they all read very similar

    I'm going to put a portfolio together when I plan to get back into the working world to show what I can do
    magnet,, stuvy and 2 others like this.
  13. brightspark

    brightspark Member

    mine would be short id come in and see u and ask if there's a job going :laughing:got a job doing electrical emergency out of hours callouts and I didn't even ask for it. I just had a weeks holiday and a guy asked if i could work a couple of days wiring out an office in british steel as there lads were working away .did the job and he asked if I would do some callouts for a week .ended up doing them for 16 years
    8ob, Ashley Burton and Dcal like this.
  14. sako243

    sako243 Member

    My mansion in Wales
    Nope, having interviewed a fair number of people in my previous job 2 pages was about the max I would read. If you have more pages on it then in my opinion (and 99% of the other interviewers) you couldn't be bothered in tailoring it for the job in question so why should I put any extra effort into filtering it. If you've got something genuinely useful that's been missed off then it'll come out in the interview. If you didn't get to the interview then, well, you didn't do a good enough job filtering your CV and do we really want to interview you...

    Emphasising my point above - tailor it to the situation. In your particular situation in a court of law then every item would be relevant, even if you only summarise them vocally but have the full blown version available "for the record".

    This :thumbup:

    Not sure whether BAE Systems could be considered a large corporate :rolleyes: but just before I left the division I worked in had more or less fired all the recruitment agencies and automated stuff after it was pretty much a complete waste of time. The only people who got a job tended to be from personal recommendations / direct applicants.

    Experienced hires were still via direct application, upload CV and reviewed manually. Basically less experienced HR people would direct the CV towards a HR colleague who only worked for that group / area. Importantly she (was almost always a female) would attend group updates (clearance allowing) and often spend quite a bit of time in the buildings where work was done so they were familiar with what was required of new employees. If she deemed the candidate suitable then she'd forward the CV to the head of the group who if the CV was promising would then personally recommend a pair of technical people within the group to interview the candidate.

    Graduates had a different system - they'd be given a link to a testing website (the tests were developed by engineers within BAE Systems). If you got a high enough score in that then your CV was sent through and you'd be invited to a big "speed-dating" interviewing session. There'd then be a number of people from different groups who'd rotate around and interview everyone.

    From what I hear the interviewers doing the speed dating were knackered at the end of the day but the candidates found it a much more relaxing process because they got to find out about different groups within the company. It's also proven to be far more successful and less of a waste of time than the classical process.

    *Edit should point out that this was for a very specialised engineering field within BAE Systems and not the run-of-the-mill manufacturing side of things.
    8ob, mike os, mpats and 1 other person like this.
  15. rtcosic

    rtcosic Member

    These days some large multinational corporates have the photos and names of applicant, their place of birth, schools etc redacted to avoid conscious or unconscious bias on the part of the recruiters.

    Yet another American Source.

    To my surprise that seems to be a UK based website.
    addjunkie and jenki like this.
  16. Munkul Member

    Cumbria, UK
    Interesting... do you think the photo thing is a good idea for most CVs? I must admit I've never heard of doing this before... I always thought it was maybe discouraged...
    I suppose it shows you're a normal human being and not a gremlin... unless you are a gremlin, in which case probably a bad idea :D
    Ashley Burton likes this.
  17. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

    Never put my photo on a cv or my age. They can work that out for themselves from my school records.
    James1979 and mike os like this.
  18. sako243

    sako243 Member

    My mansion in Wales
    Not sure about the intricacies these days but date of birth was a requirement because we had to ensure that the applicant was old enough. There was also a lot of requirements on data protection and how we handled the information - also had to be extremely careful about what was written down because candidates could request any notes.

    I did have one switched on candidate ask why I didn't have a note book and just a few pieces of paper. Trouble was if you brought a notebook then someone could be asked to check through the notebook to ensure any notes about the candidate requesting their notes had not been missed and there would have been other notes (otherwise as waste of paper) in that book that a third person should not have access too (under data protection - not security in this instance).

    Mind you I was in quite a select group because we could legally bias based off nationality. If you didn't have a British passport it was game over before you even applied, didn't matter if you had a visa to work in the country - you had to be a national. If they did get through and came to work for our group then their employment was still conditional on obtaining the necessary security clearance - once you open that avenue then all bets are off. Particularly if you get into the more sensitive areas - they are also not legally obliged to reveal how or why you were refused a security clearance.
  19. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    @doubleboost Good luck with whatever to decide, John.

    Another thing which can be helpful, depending on the size of the Company/outfit, is to know something about them and their operation - and not to be afraid of asking them questions, as well as the other way round.

    All the best.
    Migmac and 8ob like this.
  20. Kayos

    Kayos Member

    Last interview I had i asked the interviewers "why are you proud to work for this company?"
    Not only did I get some good info, in my feedback they said it was a great question and showed I was interested