Curious device

[Prajna]

Crack that and he won't see tomorrow.

It's all published to the public domain. What would be the point?

 

[Onoff]

It's all published to the public domain. What would be the point?

It can soon disappear / be discredited

 

[Prajna]

You’re on the cusp of changing the way the world operates, forever.
Free energy, limitless, when your gadget is scaled up.

Can I buy some shares in it before the market rush starts?

Sadly this is a do-it-yourself solution to world problems. I have already given away the secret and I'm not planning to profit from it except that we all profit if it really does magic up energy from somewhere.

 

[Prajna]

The force of repulsion felt between two like magnetic poles is not exactly like pushing and pulling a stick. It is more like pushing a spring. When a spring is compressed, and held at a fixed point, it can be considered to have stored energy, and capable of releasing that stored energy, when the mechanism to which it is attached is released and is able to move freely.

I get the various arguments why this "thing" shouldn't work. I even took the trouble to perform a simple test, fully expecting the results to support the idea that this would be a mechanism that moved in interesting ways, when given a little initial impetus, but would eventually come to a stop.

The tantalising thing about the device that Prajna described is that, when I performed that simple test, many weeks ago, with two magnets and a magnetic field commutating device moved in between the poles, the repulsive force between the like magnetic poles collapsed, without my being able to sense any appreciable force on the commutator itself. Whilst there did seem to have been some light force involved in moving the commutator, it appeared to me to be much less than the repulsive force between the magnets, before the commutator was put between the magnets.

I came into the discussion with an open mind, and remain so. The performance of the test was carried out in an unbiased, "what will be, will be," manner. A well constructed working model, with a sufficiently sturdy, and as near as practicably frictionless mechanism, should help answer the question one way or the other.

@voipio, it is very gratifying to have someone confirm what I have been saying through empirical testing. That seems to agree with my rough experimentation and encourages me to get the new version printed and built.

 

[hotponyshoes]

The tantalising thing about the device that Prajna described is that, when I performed that simple test, many weeks ago, with two magnets and a magnetic field commutating device moved in between the poles, the repulsive force between the like magnetic poles collapsed, without my being able to sense any appreciable force on the commutator itself. Whilst there did seem to have been some light force involved in moving the commutator, it appeared to me to be much less than the repulsive force between the magnets, before the commutator was put between the magnets.

Thats because the force needed to push the "magnetic field commutating device" in-between the two magnets is equal to the force required to rotate the magnetic field.

You don't need any more force than that unless you want to do any work.

You don't even need anything as complicated as a commutating device.
You can simply mount one of the two magnets on something that allows it to rotate.
Turn one magnet by 180deg and they will repell rather than attract.
Again, it will seem like very little force needed to turn the magnet.
(That's probably actually an easier way to build and test a model that's running on the same principle)

If you constructed the 'folded business card' version described previously the only work being done is whatever force it takes to bend the "hinge" of the already-folded card.

But, nothing is actually happening in either situation.

To get an output or drive the magnets will need to pull together with enough force to drive the output and overcome friction etc.
This force will only be created by attracting them to the steel of the cog wheel.
Once they are close to the cog wheel the force it takes to remove the cog will be the same as the force holding them against it.
So zero gain.
Add friction and you are getting out less than you put in.

 

[Prajna]

Well, the SFT-Mk5 is all assembled but sadly it is not rigid enough. I'm hoping that if I beef up the supports for the bellcranks that might make it stiff enough to work. The problem at the moment is that the magnets stick to the rotor and the mechanism is supposed to limit their travel so that can't happen but there is too much movement in the bellcrank mounts and that lets the magnets get too close to the rotor. Oh well, iterative process.

 

[daleyd]

 

[Prajna]

I'll get on to making a promotional video, so thanks for the informative video.

 

[Munkul]

There are two types of people who build perpetual motion machines.

1. Charlatans, frauds and conmen. These are out to deceive the gullible and get them to invest in "upscaling" or "commercialization" or something like that.

2. People who don't understand science, but believe that they in fact have a better grasp of it than anyone else. Especially real scientists/engineers.

 

[Guineafowl]

There are two types of people who build perpetual motion machines.

1. Charlatans, frauds and conmen. These are out to deceive the gullible and get them to invest in "upscaling" or "commercialization" or something like that.

2. People who don't understand science, but believe that they in fact have a better grasp of it than anyone else. Especially real scientists/engineers.

When I was 10 or so, I first found out that spinning a small permanent magnet motor will generate a voltage.

I then had the idea of connecting two motors together by the shaft, starting motor 1 with a battery, then connecting the wires of motor 2 back to motor 1. A PMM!

All excited, I went up to the physics teacher at the end of the lesson, and he, of course, let me down gently. “What will it sound like? If it makes a noise, it’s losing energy. Remember how resistance in the wires makes heat? More energy loss. Friction, etc.

I remember the excitement of ‘discovery’, and the disappointment of reality, and can see how people can get caught up in the former.

 

[Munkul]

When I was 10 or so, I first found out that spinning a small permanent magnet motor will generate a voltage.

I then had the idea of connecting two motors together by the shaft, starting motor 1 with a battery, then connecting the wires of motor 2 back to motor 1. A PMM!

All excited, I went up to the physics teacher at the end of the lesson, and he, of course, let me down gently. “What will it sound like? If it makes a noise, it’s losing energy. Remember how resistance in the wires makes heat? More energy loss. Friction, etc.

I remember the excitement of ‘discovery’, and the disappointment of reality, and can see how people can get caught up in the former.

Yes I remember theorising something similar too.... "but why won't it work??"

I STILL have people trying to tell me about machines that their mate's uncle's friend has built that can "run on water" and I have to smile and be nice and say something like "sounds interesting"

 

[Seadog]

There are two types of people who build perpetual motion machines.

1. Charlatans, frauds and conmen. These are out to deceive the gullible and get them to invest in "upscaling" or "commercialization" or something like that.

2. People who don't understand science, but believe that they in fact have a better grasp of it than anyone else. Especially real scientists/engineers.

I've just started the chapter in Carl Sagan's 'The Demon-Haunted World' concerning this very subject.

 

[Screwdriver]

It is quite interesting that the OP claims to be some sort of "genius" but is unable to comprehend the difference between force and work.

 

[Maker]

It is quite interesting that the OP claims to be some sort of "genius" but is unable to comprehend the difference between force and work.

To be fair, he never claimed to be a genius.

 

[cheb]

What use would a perpetual motion machine be anyway? Once set going it can't do useful work otherwise you'd have to put more energy into the system.

An over unity machine would be better.

 

[hotponyshoes]

What use would a perpetual motion machine be anyway?

You could make it into a clock that never needs winding.

 

[Red'n'Black]

I've just started the chapter in Carl Sagan's 'The Demon-Haunted World' concerning this very subject.

This has been on my list for ages. Thanks for the nudge, I've just gone and ordered a copy.

 

[cheb]

You could make it into a clock that never needs winding.

How would it display the time?

 

[Farside]

How would it display the time?

If you squint at it hard enough, you can read the time via the rapidly whirling bits of machinery leaving impressions on your retina, as they explode.

 

[Screwdriver]

To be fair, he never claimed to be a genius.

To be accurate, yes he did.

You and your 'facts', Screwup. I bet any diligent reader could spot a few more less-than-complementary statements in your 'contributions' to this thread. For a start, you have maligned my intelligence above. I don't know if you are at all intelligent and I hesitate to make an assessment but, for the record, I was a member of Mensa. Maybe duck out of the discussion if you have nothing intelligent to add.

It is referred to as "an argument from authority". If you cannot answer a question or refute the opinion of another, you claim the high ground by suggesting you have the greater authority because <of reasons>. Now while "genius" is actually a vague term and IQ even worse, the OP did use this to deflect from being unable to refute a carefully constructed argument.

I see this sort of nonsense all the time and it really ticks me off, plus of course, they never actually answer the question...