Crimping Gas Connectors with a Ferrule

[Jack Ryan]

What tool to people use to crimp these connectors?

I know there is a "proper" tool with a proper price but what other options are there? CIG has a tool that you use in a vice

and Forney sell kits including a crimping too that looks like a pair of vice grips.

I tried to use the Forney tool but is seems there is too much metal in the ferrule and it forms a hump at the open end of the jaw. I tried less pressure and going around a couple of times but it looks bad and works even worse.

A coupe of utube videos show how well it works but they must be in a different universe than I am. The Oetiker stainless single ear stepless clamps work like a treat.

Just curious to know what success others have had.

Jack

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've got the "proper" tool but the ferrule, hose & insert all need to be spot-on size wise for it to work correctly otherwise, like you say, you get a hump at the edge of the dies.

Maybe a hexagon style cable type crimper would be a bit more forgiving?

Or use a ferrule with a thicker wall then file the humps/ears off afterwards

 

[Jack Ryan]

I've got the "proper" tool but the ferrule, hose & insert all need to be spot-on size wise for it to work correctly otherwise, like you say, you get a hump at the edge of the dies.

If the fittings were any tighter before crimping I would have trouble assembling the parts. It looks like the tool is crimping too far even though it is the correct size. I used parts from the Forney kit to make sure.

Maybe a hexagon style cable type crimper would be a bit more forgiving?

I tried a cable crimp tool and it was different but still not right.

Or use a ferrule with a thicker wall then file the humps/ears off afterwards

It's a bit like working with car panels - too complex a bend and there's too much metal. I suppose I could cut it, beat it and stitch it.

What is the proper tool that you have? -A link perhaps?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jack

 

[tom2207]

I just use these ,,, not as neat , but easy to deal with , and easy to cut off and put a jubilee clip on when they leak.

 

[8ob]

What tool to people use to crimp these connectors?

View attachment 386638
I know there is a "proper" tool with a proper price but what other options are there? CIG has a tool that you use in a vice


View attachment 386639

and Forney sell kits including a crimping tool that looks like a pair of vice grips.

View attachment 386640

I tried to use the Forney tool but is seems there is too much metal in the ferrule and it forms a hump at the open end of the jaw. I tried less pressure and going around a couple of times but it looks bad and works even worse.

A coupe of utube videos show how well it works but they must be in a different universe than I am. The Oetiker stainless single ear stepless clamps work like a treat.

Just curious to know what success others have had.

Jack

Wouldnt take much to make a crimp tool from two bits of bar and two bolts. Diameter of crushed ferrule is important.

Calc to take out the guesswork . https://kuricrimp.com/calculator/

Bob

 

[mtt.tr]

Wouldnt take much to make a crimp tool from two bits of bar and two bolts. Diameter of crushed ferrule is important.

Calc to take out the guesswork . https://kuricrimp.com/calculator/

Bob

That's a damn good calculator

 

[Jack Ryan]

View attachment 386646
I just use these ,,, not as neat , but easy to deal with , and easy to cut off and put a jubilee clip on when they leak.

Yes, those work, but I find sometimes that after a while they leak at the ears. That is why I use the Oetiker single ear stepless clamps.

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

Wouldnt take much to make a crimp tool from two bits of bar and two bolts. Diameter of crushed ferrule is important.

Calc to take out the guesswork . https://kuricrimp.com/calculator/

Bob

The Forney tool doesn't seem to work, a cable crimp tool doesn't work and for the "proper" tool to work, everything has to be just right.

I don't think a bar and two bolts would work. It seems that the ferrule has to be compressed uniformly around its circumference or it bulges and leaks.

I gather that most of you don't use that type of crimp connector as it requires the "proper" tool. After experimenting, I cut the failed connections off the hose and re made it with the Oetiker clamps I mentioned above. I turned the gas on to make sure there were no leaks (there weren't) but then I couldn't easily release the gas so I turned the cylinder valve off and left the hose pressurised as a further experiment. After a fortnight, the high pressure gauge had not moved. I never wanted to change, I was just curious.

Thanks all.

Jack

 

[8ob]

I gather that most of you don't use that type of crimp connector as it requires the "proper" tool. After experimenting, I cut the failed connections off the hose and re made it with the Oetiker clamps I mentioned above. I turned the gas on to make sure

I use them, the tool (yet to be retrieved from a mate that used it last ) is a square of steel cut in half with the correct size hole drilled into it, there are four small half round reliefs around the circumference for the gathered material to escape into, its a bolt together job but it does a neat job and I would have thought less than an hours work to make..

Bob

 

[hotponyshoes]

The Forney tool doesn't seem to work, a cable crimp tool doesn't work and for the "proper" tool to work, everything has to be just right.

I don't think a bar and two bolts would work. It seems that the ferrule has to be compressed uniformly around its circumference or it bulges and leaks.

Actually the bar + 2 bolts might work better than those other tools.

I'll get some photos of the proper tool later but it's basically just a hand powered press.
The bottom jaw is stationary. The handle just pushes the top jaw down (with some levers/cams for extra force)
The important thing is that the top jaw is parallel to the bottom one at all times. The jaws sit in machined guides to keep them parallel.

I think that's what makes it work nicely.
If you think about it the mole grip style tools will firstly start to form an oval from the ferrule and that's when the ears start to appear.

At least with a bar/bolts you would have a chance to nip each bolt up a little at a time to keep it as parrallel as possible.
Or, a better (easier) way would be to fit 2 guide pins rather than bolts and then squash it up in a vice or bench press etc.
Or, use bolts, nip them up enough to hold everything in place, then put in the vice/press.

The die size does seem to be critical though. If making your own I'd get 2 bits of bar, drill a hole in each, maybe even ream out to the final size then cut down offset to the centerline of each so you don't loose the width of the saw blade. Ie, make 4 to get 2 good ones (one good die set)
No reason why you couldn't make multiple sizes on the same one but if going to all that effort I'd try and find a suitable piece of metal to make them out of!

 

[8ob]

Actually the bar + 2 bolts might work better than those other tools.

I'll get some photos of the proper tool later but it's basically just a hand powered press.
The bottom jaw is stationary. The handle just pushes the top jaw down (with some levers/cams for extra force)
The important thing is that the top jaw is parallel to the bottom one at all times. The jaws sit in machined guides to keep them parallel.

I think that's what makes it work nicely.
If you think about it the mole grip style tools will firstly start to form an oval from the ferrule and that's when the ears start to appear.

At least with a bar/bolts you would have a chance to nip each bolt up a little at a time to keep it as parrallel as possible.
Or, a better (easier) way would be to fit 2 guide pins rather than bolts and then squash it up in a vice or bench press etc.

The die size does seem to be critical though. If making your own I'd get 2 bits of bar, drill a hole in each, maybe even ream out to the final size then cut down offset to the centerline of each so you don't loose the width of the saw blade. Ie, make 4 to get 2 good ones (one good die set)
No reason why you couldn't make multiple sizes on the same one but if going to all that effort I'd try and find a suitable piece of metal to make them out of!

Its a Dixon 855. A bit too spendy for occasional use.

Bob

Edit

 

[Jack Ryan]

Sounds like I didn't imagine the correct form of bar and bolts - sorry about that.

Those tools sound a bit like the CIG tool I posted earlier but better.

I'll be interested to see the pictures.

Thanks
Jack

 

[hotponyshoes]

Or I suppose you could get one of those cheap tools and cut off the pivot so you can just use the jaws.
But I'd want to close one up first and see just how round the hole actually is on them!!

Edit: I'm just presuming the dies on the proper tool are perfectly round. I've never actually checked! Might be they are some funny shape to combat ear formation?
Should be easy enough to check by measuring a completed crimp.
Or see what the allowance on a go/no-go gauge is?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Its a Dixon 855. A bit too spendy for occasional use.

Bob

Edit

Mine is quite a bit bigger than yours
But appears to work on the same principle,
On this one the jaws are horizontal but looks like they remain parrallel when compressed.
I think that's the trick for a clean crimp.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Looks like @bobs has the same sort of over-center action as mine although mine is done with a cam type ring I think.
Not sure if that just makes it easier to use (less effort) or what.
The handle on mine goes slack when it's finished so maybe it's just an indication that the correct amount has been pressed?
Mine came out of an aerospace place so it would make sense that there was some sort of indication that it was done correctly.
Although it also came with a load of gauges so I presume they were checking all the diameters manually afterwards.
Interestingly, the go/no-go gauges seem to be the wrong way around, ie the green ones have a bigger gap than the red ones.
I've never used the gauges and it might just be that some were missing and I have paired them up wrong!!
Might well be the case as I have more dies than gauges.

 

[8ob]

Sounds like I didn't imagine the correct form of bar and bolts - sorry about that.

Those tools sound a bit like the CIG tool I posted earlier but better.

I'll be interested to see the pictures.

Thanks
Jack

The same as this one Jack.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Its a Dixon 855. A bit too spendy for occasional use.

Bob

Thanks for that. At that price the connections would want to be gas tight for a century!

But, of course, I don't need that.

Jack

 

[Jack Ryan]

Thanks for the responses. It looks like the proper crimper has spaces for the excess metal as the crimp is performed. I think the TL163 might make a neater looking crimp.

The factory crimped hoses I have look like they were done with a different tool again - something with a six segment (not just six sided) compression element. It makes a very neat crimp.

I suspect that tool is not cheap either. Not that it matters, the Oetiker clamps work very well.

Jack

 

[Robotstar5]

The factory crimped hoses I have look like they were done with a different tool again - something with a six segment (not just six sided) compression element. It makes a very neat crimp.

I suspect that tool is not cheap either. Not that it matters, the Oetiker clamps work very well.

A place I worked at 20 odd years ago used small hydraulic presses to crimp ends on hoses, I remember the tooling alone was around £4000 a set at the time.

 

[Jack Ryan]

A place I worked at 20 odd years ago used small hydraulic presses to crimp ends on hoses, I remember the tooling alone was around £4000 a set at the time.

Not one of these then.

Always bought ready made hoses for the tractor hydraulics - much safer.

Jack