crimp or solder?

[prepman]

But do you crimp or solder the terminals?

"therein lies the rub" Verily

 

[Hood]

But do you crimp or solder the terminals?

He is more the SCREW IT type of guy I reckon

EDIT
Oh I got it wrong, looks like they don't do screw terminal types of them

 

[barracuda816]

For what it’s worth, I used to be a precision termination instructor in the avionics sector. My recommendation every time would be a properly crimped connector. With the correct tooling and crimp type a crimp is longer lived and more durable than solder. I have tension tested this many times. It also is the only Technique authorised for cable repair in aviation. Also domestically your not allowed to solder either. There are reasons for this.

That said, those pre insulated automotive type are usually crap.

For most non critical situations solder is fine but lead free solder is more suseptible to fatigue than the old 63/37 solder. It is usually optically nicer then a big crimp too.

Also don’t crimp then solder, it helps nothing and can introduce corrosion from the flux and a break point in the cable from wicking the solder inside the insulation creating essentially a solid core that will fatigue if subjected to flex or vibration.

 

[prepman]

I would never use lead free on electrical. 60/40 is still available. But for plumbing it is a legal requirement

 

[8ob]

I am a crimpist and Hellerman bootist

Bob

 

[bigegg]

Yeah I've had a few different results trying to Google awg to mm2 sizes!

You have to be careful that the conversion is to "mm SQUARED", and not "mm diameter" - I've been caught out a few times by that.

 

[premmington]

For what it’s worth, I used to be a precision termination instructor in the avionics sector. My recommendation every time would be a properly crimped connector. With the correct tooling and crimp type a crimp is longer lived and more durable than solder. I have tension tested this many times. It also is the only Technique authorised for cable repair in aviation. Also domestically your not allowed to solder either. There are reasons for this.

That said, those pre insulated automotive type are usually crap.

For most non critical situations solder is fine but lead free solder is more suseptible to fatigue than the old 63/37 solder. It is usually optically nicer then a big crimp too.

Also don’t crimp then solder, it helps nothing and can introduce corrosion from the flux and a break point in the cable from wicking the solder inside the insulation creating essentially a solid core that will fatigue if subjected to flex or vibration.

I have been an self employed auto electrician for over 30years.

Solder and heatshrink is the "lasting solution" - only crimp to attach to end terminations that need "push on fittings".

Hold this thought - I have made a healthy living out of cutting out crimped on multiplugs - fault finding then - cutting them out and "hardwiring them" solder and heatshrink...

 

[J1nx]

Different opinions from different trades it seems, I’m with Baracuda above, crimps are the best solution, nothing else would be entertained in my industry.
This application seems pretty light duty and very small cables so I’m sure both methods will work just fine, infact in this case I’d say go with the solder if you havent got a quality crimper.

As a slightly related thought, I wonder if the power circuits on EV’s use crimp or solder connection between motors and battery (reasonable amount of current here), I’m pretty sure they will be crimped but seems auto guys on here prefer solder?

 

[m_c]

Anything factory will be crimped.
Any automotive manufacturer repair manual I've seen will advise adhesive heatshrink butt connectors as the preferred repair method, unless there is a reason they can't be used (typically due to space constraints), where soldering and adhesive heatshrink would be a back up method.

Like all things, the issue is in how well either method is carried out.
Anybody semi-competent is capable of doing a good crimp, but not everybody semi-competent is capable of doing a good solder join.

 

[Ubique]

Different opinions from different trades it seems, I’m with Baracuda above, crimps are the best solution, nothing else would be entertained in my industry.
This application seems pretty light duty and very small cables so I’m sure both methods will work just fine, infact in this case I’d say go with the solder if you havent got a quality crimper.

As a slightly related thought, I wonder if the power circuits on EV’s use crimp or solder connection between motors and battery (reasonable amount of current here), I’m pretty sure they will be crimped but seems auto guys on here prefer solder?

Dealer-level repairs are mainly crimped using heatshrink covered inline connectors, if pins or sockets in connector housings are required to be changed, they are usually on 'pig-tails', which are crimped to the existing harness. Some manufacturers permit repairs to restraint systems using soldered joints, there is a subset of those that only allow Diag/Master tech's to carry out such repairs as they will have been assessed on their soldering skills.
Crimps are preferred for two reasons - one being repeatable quality, provided the correct parts and tooling is used, the other being their resistance to vibration stress failures. There are very few soldered connections used on modern (1990 onwards) vehicles, all engine harness' are exclusively crimped connections, including any inline joints.

EV HV Harnesses use crimped connections, although currently repairs are not permitted, only harness assembly replacement.

 

[premmington]

Dealer-level repairs are mainly crimped using heatshrink covered inline connectors, if pins or sockets in connector housings are required to be changed, they are usually on 'pig-tails', which are crimped to the existing harness. Some manufacturers permit repairs to restraint systems using soldered joints, there is a subset of those that only allow Diag/Master tech's to carry out such repairs as they will have been assessed on their soldering skills.
Crimps are preferred for two reasons - one being repeatable quality, provided the correct parts and tooling is used, the other being their resistance to vibration stress failures. There are very few soldered connections used on modern (1990 onwards) vehicles, all engine harness' are exclusively crimped connections, including any inline joints.

EV HV Harnesses use crimped connections, although currently repairs are not permitted, only harness assembly replacement.

Correct...

 

[Ubique]

Anything factory will be crimped.
Any automotive manufacturer repair manual I've seen will advise adhesive heatshrink butt connectors as the preferred repair method, unless there is a reason they can't be used (typically due to space constraints), where soldering and adhesive heatshrink would be a back up method.

Like all things, the issue is in how well either method is carried out.
Anybody semi-competent is capable of doing a good crimp, but not everybody semi-competent is capable of doing a good solder join.

If there are space constraints, then the joint should be moved away by cutting back as necassary, same goes for bends, multiple repairs in the same area should have the through crimps staggered so as not to appreciably change the size of the harness. VWG specify that the harness should be marked externally with yellow tape to indicate repaired areas

 

[Ubique]

Correct...

I know, I've done two replacements today.... and pushed floor grommets out on another so the water can drain out before I do a floor pan harness replacement due to a bulkhead grommet not being fitted properly at build....

 

[premmington]

To be honest - I would always spec up a harness replacement - repair equal to original manufacture.

Then we need to wake up to real world vehicle repairs - costing constraints. What the customer can afford or be willing to pay for.

Then you will be soldering and hard wiring what it takes to get it to work.

 

[Ubique]

To be honest - I would always spec up a harness replacement - repair equal to original manufacture.

Then we need to wake up to real world vehicle repairs - costing constraints. What the customer can afford or be willing to pay for.

Balanced against the liability of doing something that may fail at a later date due to 'cost cutting' for the benefit of the customer - but will bite you on the arris as a 'repeat repair', all for doing what you think is the best for the customers wallet. Most times, a 'proper' repair is best for all concerned, even if it costs more initially.

 

[premmington]

Balanced against the liability of doing something that may fail at a later date due to 'cost cutting' for the benefit of the customer - but will bite you on the arris as a 'repeat repair', all for doing what you think is the best for the customers wallet. Most times, a 'proper' repair is best for all concerned, even if it costs more initially.

Real world includes - main dealerships/warranty companies/bodywork repairers/fleet owners along with the general public.

I would always prefer to replace whole harnesses with new OE spec manufacturer parts. But we supply very few - because nobody will pay for them.

That includes - car repair insurance companies - warranty companies - main dealer networks we do for work for.

But when looms on new cars fail in four or five years - to be honest our repairs warranted for one year at lower cost maybe better value for money.

 

[Ubique]

Don't get me wrong, I/we do lots of harness repairs (except HV) but as soon as you get water ingress to cabin harnesses, it's replacement, no exceptions. Some can be surprisingly cheap, I remember a Volvo V40 (rebadged Focus) with the PSA 1.6D engine harness being around £330 about five years ago, the ECM cost double that! There was a problem on the same vehicle with interior CAN getting a high resistance problem through a connector at the bottom of the 'A' pillar, the official fix was to cut out the connector and put two through crimps in it's place.

 

[premmington]

If you really get into this subject.

What is so wrong with - a twisted cable - soldered repair at twice cable mm2 - encased in glue lined heatshrink?

Compared to short - under SQ - tight - OE spec looms - made to a price by subcontract comapanies - resold on part numbers at hugely inflated margins with long waiting list times. Then fitted at poor design to rub thru...!

I long since divorced myself from the dealer model is the perfect solution for your motoring needs.

 

[premmington]

Don't get me wrong, I/we do lots of harness repairs (except HV) but as soon as you get water ingress to cabin harnesses, it's replacement, no exceptions. Some can be surprisingly cheap, I remember a Volvo V40 (rebadged Focus) with the PSA 1.6D engine harness being around £330 about five years ago, the ECM cost double that! There was a problem on the same vehicle with interior CAN getting a high resistance problem through a connector at the bottom of the 'A' pillar, the official fix was to cut out the connector and put two through crimps in it's place.

We are doing water ingress repairs to PCM/BCM modules here - not just the harneseses.

 

[Ubique]

The manufacturer only has to get them past the warranty endpoint, that's why engineering design is now a subset of accounting. And it pays me well to sort out their cut corners.