Copper Screws.

[J.B. Welding]

I'm involved in the ongoing maintenance of the smallest Kirk in Scotland and as part of that work have been asked to source or make some copper screws to match some originals. The old ones were snapped off during their removal years ago and heads lost. Historic Scotland aren't happy with the brass replacements put in by the joiner so they must be replaced. The original screws have a dome slot head around 8mm diameter, size 8 or 10ish thread and an inch or so long would be perfect but not too important so long as it's a slot dome copper head. Anyone have any such screws hidden away?? I'm off now to try to build up a brass flat head screw with copper but not too convinced I can get it to work. All assistance and advice most gratefully received!

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I'm involved in the ongoing maintenance of the smallest Kirk in Scotland and as part of that work have been asked to source or make some copper screws to match some originals. The old ones were snapped off during their removal years ago and heads lost. Historic Scotland aren't happy with the brass replacements put in by the joiner so they must be replaced. The original screws have a dome slot head around 8mm diameter, size 8 or 10ish thread and an inch or so long would be perfect but not too important so long as it's a slot dome copper head. Anyone have any such screws hidden away?? I'm off now to try to build up a brass flat head screw with copper but not too convinced I can get it to work. All assistance and advice most gratefully received!

I have a few boxes of Phosphor Bronze screws in various shapes and sizes left over from my boat building days if that's of any help, I keep meaning to stick them on eBay.

 

[ford34/2]

Its yonks since we used these guys, an English Heritage guy was so persistant about copper fixings, but we got fixed up here, wernt quite right but we put the ball in his court and asked him for a supplier.
Dont suppose you could utilize copper Nails-- loads of options avalable.
Stan

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-Supplier-Made-M3-M4-Small_60085916822.html
http://message.alibaba.com/msgsend/...A0x0g5fqEEM4LB0r&tracelog=tracedetailfeedback

 

[Digger6135]

Copper plate some brass screws of the correct size?

Digger6135

 

[J.B. Welding]

Thanks a lot chaps great info. I had thought about copper nail modifications as I have done that elsewhere in the church, but not great for this application unfortunately. I never thought of alibaba- hard to believe their min. order quantity is 1 screw!
Copper plating also good but as I'm not set up for the job it will take a while to produce the result-what would be the right electrolyte for that?
The screws are pretty brown in colour and I had a play with heating brass and oxidising it, some promise there. There is a meeting at 3 today so thanks for your quick responses- There is one chap up north who has offered to make them but his quotes always seem to be 'a few thousand' for the smallest of jobs-so muggins here wades in and does it for nowt.
Wendlewickspanner-are the phosphor bronze screws like the ones I'm after- dome slot head etc and do you think they will patinate similar to copper, if they are just right I would buy some of them off you.
Thanks again!

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Thanks a lot chaps great info. I had thought about copper nail modifications as I have done that elsewhere in the church, but not great for this application unfortunately. I never thought of alibaba- hard to believe their min. order quantity is 1 screw!
Copper plating also good but as I'm not set up for the job it will take a while to produce the result-what would be the right electrolyte for that?
The screws are pretty brown in colour and I had a play with heating brass and oxidising it, some promise there. There is a meeting at 3 today so thanks for your quick responses- There is one chap up north who has offered to make them but his quotes always seem to be 'a few thousand' for the smallest of jobs-so muggins here wades in and does it for nowt.
Wendlewickspanner-are the phosphor bronze screws like the ones I'm after- dome slot head etc and do you think they will patinate similar to copper, if they are just right I would buy some of them off you.
Thanks again!

Will have a look this evening when I get home and report back.

 

[GrumpyOne]

You could try some of the American sites, they use copper screws to fix their copper guttering in the USA especially the west coast.

 

[bill_gj]

Copper guttering !! Don't they have Pikeys over there?

 

[GrumpyOne]

Copper guttering !! Don't they have Pikeys over there?

Yes but you can shoot them if you catch them stealing your gutters

It's really amazing to watch, they have a roll of copper or aluminium in the back of their van and a hand extruder machine which they feed the metal in to, turn the handle and out the other end pops a half square gutter with rolled over edges, any lenght you need. They also make the stop ends and the outlets for the downpipes etc by hand, it is facinating to watch them, even if they do look at you as if you are a nutter and the wife shouts "Yo nutter, we are on holiday".

 

[colnerov]

Yes but you can shoot them if you catch them stealing your gutters

It's really amazing to watch, they have a roll of copper or aluminium in the back of their van and a hand extruder machine which they feed the metal in to, turn the handle and out the other end pops a half square gutter with rolled over edges, any lenght you need. They also make the stop ends and the outlets for the downpipes etc by hand, it is facinating to watch them, even if they do look at you as if you are a nutter and the wife shouts "Yo nutter, we are on holiday".

Hi, Yes there are companies over here that do that. I had them round about 10 years ago to put an Aluminium liner in the concrete gutter on the bungalow.

Colin

 

[GrumpyOne]

Hi, Yes there are companies over here that do that.

I was facinated by them, wife not so much, a long story to get here but they used copper nails for fixings which is what the OP wanted

 

[awemawson]

I doubt that the originals were actually copper, far too soft they'd twist off as you screwed them in. They'll have been a copper alloy of some sort making a bronze - possibly tin bronze.

Copper plating is dead simple. Copper sulphate solution with copper anode on the +ve of your battery and your object (screw) is the cathode (-ve). Use about 3v and keep the anode and cathode a fair way apart so that it plates slowly otherwise is will be easily rubbed off. Clean the screws vigorously in abrasive sink cleaner and rinse in boiling water then only handle using gloves or the oils in your skin will mar the plating.

 

[BoatBuilderDave]

+1 on this. I've built a boat as a hobby, (google "davesboat")
Copper screws would be soft as chocolate. Bronze is soft enough as it is.
Copper Roves (soft nails, bent back over themselves) were often used.
I've not heard of copper screws in boats.
It _could_ be copper, but I'd be really surprised.
Dave

I doubt that the originals were actually copper, far too soft they'd twist off as you screwed them in. They'll have been a copper alloy of some sort making a bronze - possibly tin bronze.

 

[Sean]

Id just ask "Hysterical Scotland" to supply i know one of the architects and they really are ********* with out a clue about the real world

 

[J.B. Welding]

I too love watching the back of the van extrusion rigs, Zinc roofing sheets are often done like that here, unrolled, profiled and cut on site then seamed up on the roof-its a good system from what I have seen.
A lot of the features of this wee church (Kirk) are pretty unique and mostly made from materials that are too soft for the job. I know what you're saying about Copper being too soft and take that on board but I recon the original screws are pretty thick and probably well pre-drilled. They're very soft to scratch and do look more of a coppery colour than bronzy. Another issue is the 100's of years of patina that has developed, playing around with carburising and oxidising flames I have had reasonable success with brass screw heads today-but lack any bronze to see if they turn out any better.
All one can do is try ones best to cater to the requirements of the highly educated-don't worry, all skilled people will be doing that soon enough!

 

[captain-destructo]

re the copper plating ....... any chrome platers near by? dont they copper plate then chrome?

 

[J.B. Welding]

re the copper plating ....... any chrome platers near by? dont they copper plate then chrome?

That's true you could be on to something. I think there is a platers about 35 miles away-might give them a bell tomorrow.

 

[brewdexta]

When I was a lad we went to Newquay on holiday and my dad found a pallet on the beach that was screwed together with copper (or copper alloy for pedants ) screws. Being an honorary Yorkshireman (he escaped family in Cheshire when he got a job in the Ford factory in Doncaster that made Anglias) he couldn't leave them there but went to a hardware store and bought a Stanley pump action screwdriver and spent a couple of hours removing them all. I'm pretty sure he has them in a jar on his bench to this day.

From memory they were probably 10s and a couple of inches long. I can ask him tomorrow if you like. They will be plain countersunk but you could round them on a grinder. How many did you say you wanted?

 

[J.B. Welding]

These are the look of the type needed, the head is quite high so working it to this from a countersunk might be bit much to ask, but I need 8 with these 8mm diameter heads and 8 a bit smaller, like size 8 ish. Thanks for your kind offer and I hope the number of 8's in this post bring you some Chinese good luck!!

 

[brewdexta]

I'll see if he still has them, if they are soft you may be able to warm them and hit them with some kind of die rather than grind them?