Copper Screws.

[J.B. Welding]

Cheers Brewdexta, I did wonder if I could give them a wee tap around to change the head style. Did you know there is no need to work copper hot? Once annealed its easy to hammer/work for a bit then it goes hard again. A quick heat up and its soft again-and repeat. It really is a joy to forge/make things from copper. You got me thinkin now.....

 

[brewdexta]

I just had a chat with my pa and he still has them, from memory about 1 1/2" 10s.

Send me a PM and I shall post you a dozen. I may be going over to his place on Sunday, not sure yet, if not it may be the week following.

Cheers
Andy

 

[MattF]

At a push if those brewdexta has aren't what you're after, you could always buy some copper dome head rivets and run the die down those and slot the heads. Running a junior hacksaw blade over the head to make a rough slot, finished by a cleaning up of the slot with a needle file, works a treat. Use an electricians screwdriver for the fitting too. The tapered screwdrivers will strip the head in a flash, whereas the electrician style will sit in the slot properly.

Like others though, (is it in a marine environment?), I'd be very surprised if those originals aren't something like phosphor bronze. Copper will be akin to a chocolate fireguard for screws.

 

[Sean]

"Round Head Black Japs" get a box off to the platers honestly most wood botherers nowadays only seem to use bugle headed phillips ( drywalls) exclusively
http://www.newtonhale.co.uk/fixings-and-fasteners/screws/round-head-screws

These are the look of the type needed,

and be sure to charge Hysteric Scotland for the run around , there must be a reason you can no longer get copper screws oh thatll be because the heads fall off them

 

[J.B. Welding]

Thanks for all your input I really appreciate it-been doing a bit of thinking and the plating option is getting the kybosh, the need to distress the screw to match the ones in the pic means that the delicate new plating will probably dissolve and/or burn off (depending how I age them) so for this application it's probably not a goer. The screws are in the door handle back plate so they do need to hold into the Oak door pretty well-I recon for ease of fitting and peace of mind some 'impure copper' jobbies are the way to go. The Church used to be a family owned one, but maintenance and restoration costs started to get out of control so Hysteric Scotland were called in and the Kirk is now trust run-mostly my neighbours so I like to help out how I can. There are a lot of weird alloys in the Kirk-Spelter is one I haven't come across anywhere else. Although all these options are viable, for the sake of time and money it would be great to get my hands on the right screw for the job-preferably some that have been 'maturing' for a few hundred years or so!

 

[GrumpyOne]

Spelter was a very cheap casting metal used mainly for ornaments.

 

[the snooper]

box of 102 on ebay

 

[MattF]

box of 102 on ebay

You can always trust a seller to cock up a description. Those are brass screws. Either that or it's the yellowest copper I've ever seen.

 

[Sean]

copper screws into aged oak!

 

[J.B. Welding]

copper screws into aged oak!

Makes you wonder don't it, how they managed to get it right first time with every original poo soft screw, and each slot lines up with the next perfectly. Yes there are a few Spelter candelabra amongst Pewter and some softer alloys, all made around Manchester originally.

 

[MattF]

Another vague suggestion. Might be worth having a play with some brass screws which are already quite oxidised, and dunking them in some citric acid. It tends to leave a copper appearance if the oxidisation is bad enough. How did they determine that the originals were copper, btw?

Set myself off wondering after mentioning a die for threads earlier. How is the thread for a woodscrew usually created? These will be the old tapered style? Now the subject has come up, I've realised I've no idea how they actually produce the threads on woodscrews.

 

[Sean]

 

[J.B. Welding]

Nice Vid, pretty much the same way as bolt threads are formed-for some reason I thought it would be different. So I just need one of those and some coppery wire and jobs a good un.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Nice Vid, pretty much the same way as bolt threads are formed-for some reason I thought it would be different. So I just need one of those and some coppery wire and jobs a good un.

So I checked my stockpile of screws and unfortunately the boxes of Silicon Bronze screws are just countersunk, no raised heads but I did come across a box of brass screws with raised heads that had a copper finish, the box was labelled Light BMA and googling it reveals that the BMA stands for Bronze Metal Affect.
So I have:
Silicon Bronze countersunks no. 8's in 1 and 1.5"
Brass Light BMA raised heads no. 6 in 1"
plus about 20 raised head no. 6 brass light BMA in a mixture of sizes from 3/4 to 1 1/4" (looks like ones me Dad rescued from a piece of furniture).

 

[Wendelspanswick]

From top to bottom:
Silicon Bronze
Silicon Bronze
Brass Light BMA
Old Brass
Modern Brass (yuck!)

 

[CRB]

Makes you wonder don't it, how they managed to get it right first time with every original poo soft screw, and each slot lines up with the next perfectly. Yes there are a few Spelter candelabra amongst Pewter and some softer alloys, all made around Manchester originally.

Cut the slots in later. Peasy.

 

[J.B. Welding]

screw in the threaded round bar, cut it off then stamp on the dome head and cut the slot, shotgun style?

 

[J.B. Welding]

From top to bottom:
Silicon Bronze
Silicon Bronze
Brass Light BMA
Old Brass
Modern Brass (yuck!)

The BMAs are the closest so far I would say but a bit small at no.6. Thanks for looking them out I was dreaming you would have the perfect match stashed away . These blinkin screws are proving to be a tricky to locate. Looking at the finish on the top 2 screws makes me think old silicon bronze could be a close enough match, and a bit of oxy heating will age them up nicely I recon. Time for a bit of googling. Thanks for you effort Wendlespanwick and everyone else too-I hope to be able to return the favour soon.

 

[MattF]

and a bit of oxy heating will age them up nicely I recon.

It won't. By the time you get any discolouration in the screws via heat, you've reached annealing temperature, (unless phosphor bronze behaves very differently to pure copper or brass), and that oxide will flake off very easily. Ammonia vapours are, if I recall, the best way for aging brass/bronze.

 

[J.B. Welding]

Good info on the Ammonia vapours thanks-but as mentioned before I had reasonable success with heating brass quickly to red and then (carefully timed) blasting it with oxy and it made an oxide layer that was 'servicable' but I have concerns about the bright brass that lies beneath. If I boiled up a pot of morning **** and put the screws in the veg steamer would it do the trick you think?