Cold Saw Coolant?

[Windy Miller]

Guys, I've recently treated myself to an old Clarke Metakworker cold saw. The coolant pump is a little dodgy, so I need to bodge something to replace it/ get it working, and I also need to get some coolant for it.

Any advice on suitable bodges and suitable coolant much appreciated!

 

[chevy2]

I've had one if those saws for years, the stupid little pump on the side packed up a long time ago,
i simply still keep a bath of coolant in the bed and apply it with a brush onto the edge of the blade,
just remember to brush regularly when cutting thicker material and the blade will stay sharp longer,
just use water based soluble oil by Rocol etc,
it usually mixes with water at ratios between about 20 and 50-1.

 

[Gareth0123]

I have a Sealey single phase chopsaw, and like just about everyone else the pump packed up. Sealey wanted almost £300 +Vat +P&P for a replacement pump as they did not supply refurbishment kits, so I fitted a Vapormatic tractor fuel lift pump. It did mean a little modification as the new lift pump required fitting on the other side of the original mounting but I used only a pistol drill and 2 off M6 timber (spiked) nuts to fix the new pump to the plastic mounting. The Vapormatic pump was about £17+VAT. and complete refurbishment kits are less than £8. each. I keep a second pump in stock and 2 refurbishment kits and then every December I do an in-house service ex on the pump .


Each month I do between 500 -1300 cuts with my coldsaw, with about 20% of those cuts at 45* and I can tell you that a general coolant is not the stuff to use, you need a proper saw cutting fluid. I have also doubled the capacity of the reservoir of my saw to 3 litres by adding a 1.5 litre plastic jar.

To protect the pump the first level of filtration I have is a spill weir in the reservoir of the saw itself. This weir is made up from a rectangular shaped Herring can and 6 neo magnets. Then there is a fine brass Y strainer with ball valve leading down to the plastic jar reservoir which sits upon 12 neo magnets to make a gravity and magnetic sump, then on to a cleanable in-line mesh fuel filter; again with 3 neo magnets, before going up to the pump itself. As it is a tractor fuel lift pump it will lift approx 1 metre on the suction side. On the output side of the lift pump I have a proper hydraulic adjustable flow valve to metre the flow of fluid delivered to the blade. It has set me back about £75.00 in total to make up this coolant system, but the saw hasn't had a single coolant related issue or breakdown outage since I put all this on, so I have saved considerable time and some money over the last 5 years.

A) Saw's standard 1.5 litre coolant reservoir
B) Y strainer and ball valve.
C) Cleanable in-line fuel filter sitting on 3 X neo magnets
D) Additional plastic jar reservoir sitting on 12 X Neo magnets

A) Vapormatic Lift Pump
B) Hydraulic Flow control valve
C) Brush strip door insulation as a splash guard around the saw's "wet tray.

I've used 1/4 BSP fittings and 8mm bore hose throughout, but with the additional reservoir being positioned directly under the saw I sometimes suffered with airlocks, so I have used a 1/4 bsp compressor drain as an air bleed vent.

 

[langy]

The coolant pump the cold saws usually use is a 100E fuel pump, mine was ******** as well and full of swarf, the 100E pump bolted straight on !!!

 

[Gareth J]

The old pump should just about be coaxed into working, try blowing out all the non return bits with compressed air then priming it with a syringe if you have one. It never would self prime but the inline non return did stop it leaking back down for several days.

If all that fails, my saw runs a cheapo eBay submersible 240v fishpond pump. That's pretty ropey to be honest too but it is working.

Is it all as you expected?

 

[Windy Miller]

The old pump should just about be coaxed into working, try blowing out all the non return bits with compressed air then priming it with a syringe if you have one. It never would self prime but the inline non return did stop it leaking back down for several days.

If all that fails, my saw runs a cheapo eBay submersible 240v fishpond pump. That's pretty ropey to be honest too but it is working.

Is it all as you expected?

So far Gareth I'm well chuffed! I Won't try it until I have some proper coolant for it, but first impressions are all good!

I hope to have a proper play with it at the weekend! Thanks again to you and your lovely sister!

 

[Windy Miller]

Thanks for all your advice on this guys. I'll have a go a resurrecting the current pump and if that won't work, I'll try to find an old ford pinto style fuel pump. If memory serves, they work with a straight plunger rather that the lever type. This should suit my saw better. Is the 100E a plunger style?

Any recommendations for a dedicated cold saw coolant?

 

[Gareth J]

No problem, glad its ok for you. Yeah, Laura's a star, I owe her a favour now!

Plenty of syringes here to aid priming, pm me and I'll post one to you if you can't get one locally. I don't know if its the sort of thing Boots will let you have over the counter - bad drugs and that.

I had been using smith and allen soluble cutting fluid but keen to know if there's a better dedicated saw fluid too?

 

[Shedendman]

Hello Windy,i've an old clarke donkey saw as i call it,my pump worked fine but the PITA bit was it squirted so much the coolant went everywhere plus you had to adjust the nozzle on the cut itself.
The thing is when you start the saw up the pump starts when you lower the arm down to cut its a pain if your not on the line and have to do any adjustments thus having your cut line covered in gook.
Now i dont bother with it,i have one of those mini squirty oil cans and just squeeze some cutting oil as the blade goes along
Or get a can of this as i do and spray as you cut
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Aut...5/Cutting+&+Drilling+Cooling+Lubricant/p75018
Not bad stuff

 

[Gareth0123]

Fuel lift pumps can be bought from ebay and elsewhere on-line cheap enough.

I currently have a Vapormatic VPD3000 pump fitted to my Coldcut saw, new ones of these these can be picked up for about £15.00 to £20.00 on-line.

The repair kit for many of the mechanical lift pumps is Vapormatic VPD3201 the screw positions holding the pump top covers to the main body are symmetrical, meaning that you can turn the pump covers around so that the pipe work fittings are away from the saw. This I did with the pump fitted to my saw by turning the head 2 of 5 screw holes: 144*

I am considering changing my saw's coolant pump to the VDP3004 which has the built in glass sediment bowl I can buy one of these on ebay for less than £20.00. I use my saw a lot and having another inline method preventing very fine saw chips and metal dust in addition to the spill weir, y strainer, magnetic sump, in-line filter and the pumps own internal gauze filter getting up to the pump and causing stoppage is good for me.

I have yet to find proper saw cutting fluid available for sale in containers less than 20 litre and these are about £100+vat. The cutting fluid I use I buy from my local steel supplier for £6/ltr, and 1 litre at a dilution rate of 1:30 is more than enough to see me through the whole year.

 

[chevy2]

Rocol and Milicent do it in about 5 litre sized cans.

 

[Windy Miller]

I had a drive 'round a local industrial estate today, and all I could get was 20 litre drums. I only wanted a litre!

I popped into a fabricators to see where they got theirs, and. They were kind enough to give me squash bottle full! I had a rummage in their scrap bin while I was there, and came away with enough bits of 40mm box to make a stand for the saw. A contribution to the tea boat, and we were all happy!

Yesterday I managed to get a brand new Ford pinto style fuel pump from a place in Dartford for £20, so now the challenge is to make it fit the saw. I could possibly get the original pump working, but I wouldn't want to have to prime it each time I used it - I need it to work properly each time I switch it on, as I know I'd not be disciplined enough to manually lubricate the blade every time. I'd keep promising to do it 'next time' and the blade would be knackered in no time!

Watch this space for cold saw/Capri fuel pump thread!

 

[Pete.]

I've got some rocol soluble oil if you need any more Andy. Probably enough to mix up 5 gallons.

 

[Windy Miller]

Cheers Pete, I'll bear that in mind

Do you still want that Thundercat manual?

 

[Windy Miller]

An update:

I had a play with the saw on Sunday, and I have to say I'm very impressed with it. So much better than an abrasive wheel saw or a chop saw. It cuts quicky, quietly, and most importantly accurately! I'm chuffed to bits actually!

I think the fuel pump idea is a bit of a non starter though - too much hassle.

I pulled the old pump apart, cleaned out all the crap, treated it to a new O ring, and it worked. Didn't even have to prime it! My excitement was short live though, as it pretty soon stopped again! Hardly surprising though, as the inside of the pump was very badly scored so I guess the O ring just wore out again.

Plan B is to make another pump vaguely like the original, and use some of Gareth0123's magnetic filtration ideas. I'm collecting the bits and pieces I need to make it, so watch this space!

 

[chevy2]

I was cutting 3" x1/4" wall tube on my coldsaw this evening,
I simply brush soluble onto the blade about every 10 seconds, blades still last a long time between sharpens.

 

[Gareth J]

Who does everyone use for sharpening blades? I have been sending mine off to a company called Harrison saw and tool in lancashire that trade through eBay under the name "wellsharp". Think they charge 8 or £9 per blade which I didn't think was too bad. One of the blades did come back with a high spot last time though. May have been a one off but if they are odd shaped this time, I'd be keen to learn of other places that will sharpen them mail order....

 

[chevy2]

I pay about £8 from a local sharpeners.

 

[Gareth0123]

I pay £15.00 for two blades to be sharpened, so £7.50 each at City Saws here in Norwich. I currently have 6 blades; 2 X 140 teeth, 2 X 180 teeth and 2 X 225 teeth, although I tend to use only the 225T blades for production work and ERW runs, for cutting 5mm+ thick wall box, 5mm+ thick angle and channel I use the 140s, the 180's hardly get used these days except for schedule 40 and CHS jobs.

 

[Windy Miller]

Interesting post Gareth, thanks for that! Being a cold saw newbie this type of information is good to have!

What factors do you consider when you are selecting blades?