Chinese manufacturing

[Arsonista]

I used to be in manufacturing, employing lots of people, buying capital equipment, etc, etc... Bloody glad I'm too old for it now. I've worked sheet metal most of my life and can remember pallets of steel with 'Ravenscraig' (sp?) stencilled on them, best steel I've ever worked. I agree with what you say Weldequip, I really do, and It's great to see someone rageing against this tide of apathy, but I think it's too late. Going back to when I started my apprenticeship, all the lads had clapped out old bikes and cars that they fixed themselves. If you couldn't fix it you walked. Then something happened, we became a nation of office workers and forgot how to make or fix. Then something else happened, we became a nation of consumers, and if something broke it went to landfill and we bought a new one. A cheap new one. No-one cared where it came from, we were hooked on cheap goods, and bought them by the container load. Then the big steel works and manufacturing plants started to close down in the 'developed' world. And then, far too late, everyone realised it was far too late. The guys on this forum and for example the people who build custom bikes and cars are a shining example of creative people who will have a crack at fixing or making anything, but we're tiny outposts. It's over, we're fooked.

 

[matt1978]

Yeah I agree Sean, its shocking.........where did it all go wrong?!?

I also agree that sooner or later, the roles will reverse and we will become the 3rd world countries.

We had better get ready for a huge change in lifestyle.......no free healthcare, no free education, no state benefits, certainly no minimum wages. Just life at the bottom of the pile........but it'll be alright coz I will still have my cheap Saucepans, Quad bike, Remote control cars, Fridge, TV, MMA inverter.......

 

[Angusdog]

I don't think it went wrong, in as much as the UK or any other country could have done anything about it. The fact is China is so massive, with a plentiful supply of labour that would work for sustenance pay. The rise is chinese manufacturing is a relatively recent phenomenon, but before that it was Japan, Taiwan and so on. But now the tsunami of cheap goods has well and truly hit, and despite the experiences everyone has had, the quality is going to improve.

Having uncorked the bottle, there's no going back. But there is a limiting factor, in the shape of peak oil. The Green movement was right about global warming, and if they're right about peak oil, cheap goods are very much the last thing to worry about. I started read a book on it, and halfway through I had to give up. If they're even half right, get ready for a monumental crisis.

And we're told the next wars will be fought over water, not oil. People buy water like fizzy pop, sometimes engineered to be better than simply H2O, and yet Africa is drying up and the six billion people of Planet Earth use nearly 30% of the world's total accessible renewal supply of water. By 2025, that value may reach 70%. That's 16 years away.

Which makes the US bailout of their auto companies (apparently the only way to save America) seem like, to use a hackneyed expression, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

The worse thing: I have this nightmare about it all coming true, and the only people who survive are HIPPIES!

 

[Arsonista]

the only people who survive are HIPPIES!

Think I'd rather starve!

 

[matt1978]

The fact is China is so massive, with a plentiful supply of labour that would work for sustenance pay.

I agree with almost everything you said apart from the bit above.......these production workers seldom have any choice or say in the matter.

If they don't accept a dollar a day to work in crap conditions, they starve. Simple as that.

 

[matt1978]

Think I'd rather starve!

Well..........you would always feel like you was starving, if you got the munchies from smoking all that weed with the Hippies

 

[TechnicAl]

Ive seen the true costs of making quality products in China, they are basically the same as in Europe. They make cheap crap specifically for export.....and we buy it

BTW 100% agree with Matt

We can introduce the CE, ROHS, etc but until we effectively police it its only a block to the honest. Its a license to print money for the rogues who will import anything as long as its cheap.

I know of imported wires that claim LR, TuV and other approvals but there is no mention of them on the appropriate official List of Approved Products. I report them to the authorities and they do nothing.

They only way something MIGHT happen is if there is a disaster when people are killed. Then the authorities will be looking for a scapegoat.

 

[Wedg1e]

At work we're currently involved in a project to automate a production line. The line is built around 4 Fanuc robots (Japanese) with 250Kg lift capability. The robots serve 6 Doosan (formerly Daewoo I think - and Korean) CNC centres. Each robot costs £100K and each CNC £200K.
At the end of the project, a sizeable chunk of the workforce will be made redundant.
The product? Ammunition for British artillery, tanks and ships. No longer made on British machine tools because, arguably, there aren't any. And certainly no longer made by British working men, because there soon won't be any of those, either...
Even more bizarre: isn't it only about 40 years since we were bombing the crap out of Korea...?

 

[dannyweld]

i am off to china in october to load up a 20 footer, i have been getting a lot of my stuff made in shenzen the last five years, have even brought over some of my oppositions stuff over and dumped it on the market, personally i think china could be imploded in 10 years time, hope it is to be honest its a hell hole, the labour is cheap though so i go while it lasts. sent over two top range kemppi mig inverters two years ago with my colchester master which was getting on, they use these tools now to make my stuff.. see thats the thing, a welding set made in china will never do a 24/7 tripple shift, we know it and so do they and as soon as they make money over there they buy western, bling, mercs, bmw, you name it so its going both ways, there is not to much british goods though as could have been thanks to the destruction of british industry at the hands of the looney left. business is tough, but when was it ever easy though.. i would'nt worry about the chinese though, you see there not that smart, our wealth is built on the principle of security on tenure, over there they throw people out of there houses even if they have bought them.. and they are so arragont, and because of this they will never make great stuff, we will have to do that, well the germans yanks and japs anyway britain sadly has gone 'post industrial' its all about selling each other your houses, and to keep up demand bringing in immigrants from the worst countries in the world, nobody forces this country to buy from china etc, people will snub there nose at british if they can save 50 pence. its dog eat dog out there.

 

[Arsonista]

isn't it only about 40 years since we were bombing the crap out of Korea...?

Didn't do a good enough job then, did we.

 

[W.I.R.E.Ltd]

This is all getting a bit political but lets be blunt. If your looking for a cheap mig tig or whatever dont look to buy a machine with only the price of the set in mind. They all need backup and when shipping it to and from the distributer is at your cost and you may wait weeks for repair or replacement, leaving you to hire a set............ Need i say more.
There are some good U.K. manufacturers out there. Lets support them AND save ourselves money.

 

[MrFluffy]

I went to an exhibition in London about 5 years ago where all the exhibitors were from the Far East, seeking to sell directly to retailers, rather than via numerous middlemen. The range of products was huge. The unit prices were incredible, as long as you ordered container type quantities. One example I recall was a range of enamelled cast iron saucepans which looked very similar to the range by Le Creuset, and just as good quality, as far as I could tell.. Anyway, whereas a Le Creuset saucepan might cost £60, these were more like £3 for the same size. I hope they do well because Le Creuset's pricing is wicked and the quality isn't all it's cracked up to be. If Le Creuset go out of business, it will be their own fault for being greedy.

Thats probably because if you flip it, the le creuset pan is now stamped "made in china". See that way the suit's running the company get big fat bonuses for outsourcing, they STILL get to charge the price for doing the job properly, and you the consumer get to pay for what was once a quality product, but now are merely being hoodwinked by a bit of history and a company a shadow of its former self.

They closed a factory the next town up from here a couple of years back to relocate the jobs to china, major employer of the area gone, lots of jobless since. Not a damn thing even the french could do about it, although they do have import quotas on chinese goods and impose them, although thats being legally challenged strongly every year.

Why? Think, there are a LOT of "quality" goods that have just been switched to manufactured in china quietly without telling anyone, we all know about how the quality of some bosch gear has fell, whereby the same model but pre relocation was really strong. So thats the problem, now you cant select on price because odds are the quality product your buying could well be made on the same product lines as the cheap crap, and just has a bigger portion of fat for the management to cream off. Even a locally made product bearing a local flag will be full of componentry made in china.

 

[W.I.R.E.Ltd]

What a great way to justify buying chinese.

Lets all stop buying british just in case it is chinese. Buy chinese instead that way you are sure its chinese, its cheap and its of questionable quality.

When i say there are good uk manufacturers, i have visited them and seen machines being manufactured, they wind their own transformers and make p.c.b.'s..........

Maybe it was my imagination and they were putting stickers on chinese machines.

Is it any surprise our economy is suffering.

 

[R Kraft]

The auto company unions donate huge amounts of money to the presidents political party.
If the auto companies went under the presidents party would have lost a main source of their funding,so he bailed out the auto companies and gave a large part of the companies to the union.
Robert

Which makes the US bailout of their auto companies (apparently the only way to save America) seem like, to use a hackneyed expression, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

The worse thing: I have this nightmare about it all coming true, and the only people who survive are HIPPIES!

 

[MrFluffy]

What a great way to justify buying chinese.

Lets all stop buying british just in case it is chinese. Buy chinese instead that way you are sure its chinese, its cheap and its of questionable quality.

When i say there are good uk manufacturers, i have visited them and seen machines being manufactured, they wind their own transformers and make p.c.b.'s..........

Maybe it was my imagination and they were putting stickers on chinese machines.

Is it any surprise our economy is suffering.

No, lets stop letting people put flags on things that are misleading.
Perhaps mandate a certain percentage of the final product to attain the status to use the flag in case.

For that end Id also like to see products which have nationalistic elements in their branding to also conform, a certain percentage of employees and offices should be based under the flag they stamp with rather than having a few people in a head office here. After all they are partly trading on that element of their branding and we're paying a premium against the chinese variants, then they should be delivering on that promise.
If you support british manufacturing, surely this would benefit those honest manufacturers who are playing by the rules rather than bending them.

Let me cite an truly shocking example. The "British council", set up to promote britain to the world recently announced that they were offshoring to india to save money. Sending the message that even the british say to send your work to india.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/29/british_council_jobs_cut/