Cebora Car 30

[KemppiFrog]

Thanks for the input Dave,

The PCB is there, but it is def not HF start. Might pre-date the HF Prof 35s.
Also I bought it in Portugal, and there was a sneaking feeling that it might have been old stock compared with N. Europe. Same with my TIG. The HF version was listed, but not available. ( Telwin)
KF

 

[NotANormalCoder]

I am intrigued! I vaguely remember that there was a Prof35 and Prof35HF. If you have the bog standard 35, then you are correct, no HF - but, for my own interest, does the HF pcb generate a spark when you press the trigger? Seems strange that they would include the pcb but not use it.
Next time I speak to Cebora technical, I will ask if anybody remembers....
Dave

 

[KemppiFrog]

Hi,
The PCB is a fairly simple device with a few relays and the stepdown transformer. Pushing the button on the torch starts the air and activates the contacter. But one has to bump the nozzle to get it going. All the parts are original.
'Nother question: If the air pressure is just under the bottom limit, would this drasticly reduce nozzle life? I was cutting some 1.5mm sheet today and the new nozzle looked a bit rough after a couple of mtrs. of cut, Then I noticed the pressure at the plasma regulator was down. First time I have used it for a few months and I didn't check.
KF

 

[NotANormalCoder]

So this is deffo the Prof35 and not the 35HF which was a later variant and had a PCB specifically for generating the HF. From memory, regulator should be set to give 4.5 to 5 bar *when the air is flowing* The air not only generates the plasma stream but also cools the tips/nozzles etc. so low air could result in worn parts. Clean, dry air is a must for long consumable life - water/oil kills them quickly. Also, 'piercing' results in blowback inside the head which wears the bits fast - always try to cut in from an edge, or drill a quick hole and start from there.
Another thing related to your early post about occasional poor starting - Most people replace the inner tip, cutting nozzle and swirl ring but few realise that the outer nozzle conducts current to the cutting nozzle. Wear on the brass 'lining' where the nozzle fits, can cause minor arcing and poor starting - may be worth checking this out.
Dave

 

[mackan_]

Thanks for all your tips and advice!
Will order some part now

 

[KemppiFrog]

Thanks again, the outer nozzle is also new. I will make sure the flow is up to correct levels.
Previousl;y it was mostly used for 4mm steel and the tips/nozzles lasted an acceptable time.
KF

 

[tysonn]

This looks worryingly like what has befallen me today.Looks like the same machine and torch too.Similar charcoal like appearance!

 

[tysonn]

Spoke to Dave at http://www.woodfieldwelding.com/ and he was very helpful and stocks the torch for my Cebora Car30.Can anyone tell me if the air should be running all the time from my torch or shut off when I let the trigger go?If its another fault whats the likely cure?

 

[KemppiFrog]

The air continues for a few seconds after you release the button on the torch, to cool it. Otherwise the timer/relay must be stuck.
KF

 

[tysonn]

There are two relays on the board.Will it be one of them?

 

[KemppiFrog]

There are two relays on the board.Will it be one of them?

I expect so, the other for the contacter? If clear cased, you might be able to see them move. Otherwise check the solenoid air valve, that might be stuck (and more likely than the relay. I only looked at the PCB a couple of times, and they were long ago. The transformer on it blew a few months after I bought it and rather than wait aeons for the factory, I had a local guy rewind it.

 

[tysonn]

Had another look today.There are 2 relays on the board.If I push the lever on them it moves the contactors and you can hear the transformer power.One also increases the airflow?Wonder if there should be a constant flow which increases when the triggers pulled?

 

[tysonn]

Thing is I cant get the relays to do anything by pulling the trigger?I have established that the trigger(which can only be a microswitch)isnt doing anything but if I short its 2 wires nothings happening in the machine and the contactors only work if I press the relay manually.Wish I had more understanding of whats going on or should be!

 

[KemppiFrog]

Humm, I was going to say check the volts on the air valve before and after you press the button. If it is the valve is sticking, then there will be ziltch before you press the button. If live, then prob the relay on the pcb.

 

[tysonn]

Looks like curtains for me LOL!I once had a mig that regularly needed the points on the relay cleaning or they stuck and had to remove the cover and give them a wipe.Tried this yesterday and the cover was stuck fast with age and I managed to bust the relay!!!!!!Thing is the only info on it is Feme(makers name) and MZP 100 49 05.Couldnt find anything like it on Ebay(although it looks pretty standard)so can't really make any more progress.Google didnt really come up with anything concrete either.

 

[KemppiFrog]

IIRR the stepdown was to 24v, (though might have been 12v) You can check this by metering the output of the transformer, then any decent relay will do the job, even on fly leads off the PCB. The air valve is probably 230v, but might be marked. I have loads of old gate opener PCBs, they have half a dozen relays each that are 12v with switching 230v. Keeps me from buying any....
Your remark about the airflow increasing makes me think the valve is sticking partially open.

 

[tysonn]

Hi mate,I do appreciate your help.Have found a seller for the relay so its on its way.Could you please read through this thread that I posted last week?It may explain a bit better what the story is:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/cebora-cp35-problems.46844/

 

[KemppiFrog]

Hi mate,I do appreciate your help.Have found a seller for the relay so its on its way.Could you please read through this thread that I posted last week?It may explain a bit better what the story is:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/cebora-cp35-problems.46844/

Never had any probs with the torch, so guessing that mess in your pix is from lack of cooling from the air. The carbonized bit is the sleeve that is between the the electrode and the hat shaped outer cap. I only replaced that a couple of times in the years I had the unit, compared with the other two parts.
With your possible air valve problems, might fit the scenario.
KF

 

[tysonn]

So if I go over what happened when I tested it:
Sheet of shiny 18g,good earth clamp,air pressure at 50ish(played with this and at a certain pressure the air pressure light was flashing when I made contact).Torch is press start so I touched tip to metal pressed slightly and pulled the trigger then pulled back enough to release the spring type pressure on the tip but leaving it touching the sheet(air flowing constantly),just weak sparks(actuators clicking and transformers making the right sounds),did this for a while trying both amp settings,air pressure settings etc before noticing the blackened remnants of the torch.Since then I have tested the trigger continuity which seems to be not there?I know this doesnt make sense but it is the case(of course this can easily be fixed with another microswitch as it just shorts 2 very thin gauge wires).I bust the realy getting the cover off but anothers on its way.Dave at Woodfield(from what I can see the only stockist of a replacement torch) link below
http://www.woodfieldwelding.com/PocketPlasma.aspx
suspects that there may have been water in the machine from standing all that time which could have contributed to the fry-up(my compressor has 2 filters and I spray without probs so cant see it being my setup)although he recommends fitting an extra water trap on the cutter end of the airline as well.
As you will see from the ad a new torch head and tip,electrode.swirl ring etc is £140ish plus carriage which aint cheap but considering what I've got in the cutter I can stand that,my main concern(and I cant expect either you or Dave to give any kind of assurance unseen except that your knowledge of how they work is a million times more than mine)is will the damn thing work after that?Could you possibly give me an idiots guide to what to do to check the workings over beforehand as far as the air valve,relay operation and anything else you can think of etc is concerned?this thread has a cutter very similar to mine with a good pic of the guts
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/cebora-pocket-25-plasma-cutter-issues.26643/

 

[Jan]

Internal contacts in relays are well known for frying/sticking if being used at the top end of their current capacity. A handy 'trick' is to wire a capacitor in parallel with them. Around 10-50 microfarads at triple or better the voltage expected should reduce or even completely prevent arcing as they open and close.