Car not recognising keys. Oh figs!

[Martin Hocking]

"The reason they sell new cars is old ones reach end of life"....

Where in Norfolk are you..?

Never a truer word said.

I’m in lenwade which is roughly halfway between Norwich and fakenham.

(I’ll pop you a pm in a minute)

 

[jmp49]

Tangental but blimey, contrasts, I just been out for the test voyage in my daughters 2007 207, it arrived with one non remote key, and 170,000 on a 1.4 vti. Today it has 3 working remote flip keys and 2 non remote ones that I made and programmed for her, and I've just been running diagnostics as it relearns new sensors. In the uk it would be considered well past end of life, here its 3-4 grands worth.
It always strikes me how people just keep cars alive here, sometimes a 20-30 year old car is still on its first family owners, whereas in the uk its the thing to have a new model if you can. I always put this down to the fact that in the UK you can see how old a car is from looking at the numberplate, whereas here, its not possible to see apart from the model shape.

 

[m_c]

Tangental but blimey, contrasts, I just been out for the test voyage in my daughters 2007 207, it arrived with one non remote key, and 170,000 on a 1.4 vti. Today it has 3 working remote flip keys and 2 non remote ones that I made and programmed for her, and I've just been running diagnostics as it relearns new sensors. In the uk it would be considered well past end of life, here its 3-4 grands worth.
It always strikes me how people just keep cars alive here, sometimes a 20-30 year old car is still on its first family owners, whereas in the uk its the thing to have a new model if you can. I always put this down to the fact that in the UK you can see how old a car is from looking at the numberplate, whereas here, its not possible to see apart from the model shape.

Cars don't corrode the same in Southern Europe.
That same car in the UK is likely to be reaching the point where the sills are starting to corrode, so you're at the point of deciding whether any major mechanical repairs would actually be worth doing.

 

[premmington]

Cars don't corrode the same in Southern Europe.
That same car in the UK is likely to be reaching the point where the sills are starting to corrode, so you're at the point of deciding whether any major mechanical repairs would actually be worth doing.

I tend to buy them at about 5yrs old with low mileage and then run them to the death.

I got three cars at the moment 2010 - 2012 - 2013 vintage.

The 2010 one is near end of life - stopped servicing it and doing any preventitive maintenance - just fire fight problems as and when they pop up - wring the last life out of it. Drinks oil - PCV valve in rocker cover failed - plus overdue for cambelt.

 

[Martin Hocking]

I tend to buy them at about 5yrs old with low mileage and then run them to the death.

I got three cars at the moment 2010 - 2012 - 2013 vintage.

The 2010 one is near end of life - stopped servicing it and doing any preventitive maintenance - just fire fight problems as and when they pop up - wring the last life out of it. Drinks oil - PCV valve in rocker cover failed - plus overdue for cambelt.

I bet none of them have names…

 

[dobbslc]

The 2010 one is near end of life - stopped servicing it and doing any preventitive maintenance - just fire fight problems as and when they pop up - wring the last life out of it. Drinks oil - PCV valve in rocker cover failed - plus overdue for cambelt

And you run a bloody garage

 

[premmington]

I bet none of them have names…

Martin - I am 58yrs old.

I have been a car mechanic for 42yrs - and a garage owner for 40.

No my cars don't have names. I hate cars...

 

[premmington]

And you run a bloody garage

Never buy a car off a mechanic

 

[LewisT]

sometimes a 20-30 year old car is still on its first family owners, whereas in the uk its the thing to have a new model if you can. I always put this down to the fact that in the UK you can see how old a car is from looking at the numberplate, whereas here

Finance and pretending they are rich.

 

[dobbslc]

@jmp49
You're right!
When I've been driving through France I enjoy looking at all the older cars still rolling around. You guys don't seem to be as superficial as the UK car buyers are, UK people in general!
These Muppets seem to think that having the latest BMW is the only important thing and don't worry about paying the food bills or replacing the bald tyres

 

[dobbslc]

Finance and pretending they are rich.

Beat me to it

 

[jmp49]

I have a 30+ year old fiat ducato motorhome too, same motor as the mk1 master van in some of my posts (sofim s8u), and written on the side window in big letters are the words "Old, Slow, Paid for..." on 3 rows.
I like seeing the reaction on the faces of 90 grand A class motorhome owners, especially as it has every amenity they have because I've been slowly updating it over the years. At the moment I have a complete power steering rack setup to go on then the only thing it will lack is power. Maybe one day when I get time and the inclination I'll find & fit a decent s9u turbo engine out of a 2.5 safrane in as its the same engine modified for turbo duty but double the power.
Been up the alps in it as it is though and many family hols & race meets and events with the kids and laden with crap. Just doesnt have the power to wear itself out properly it seems. Im going to put a new cambelt on it next month and check it for leaks because its ageing out and due some tlc for being the faithful old workhorse.

Service life, pffffaaaaa, you can keep all that nonsense. I want to just keep things alive out of sheer spite at consumerism.

 

[keithski122]

Martin - I am 58yrs old.

I have been a car mechanic for 42yrs - and a garage owner for 40.

No my cars don't have names. I hate cars...

I think a lot of people that have been in the trade for a while have the same thoughts, unfortunately it also gets ingrained in you.

 

[GRW]

I like and appreciate the older, simpler utilitarian stuff. I've always run older, cheaper cars quite happily - the problem.for me is that even the older cars now.... aren't so simple (newest vehicle in my household is 14yo, while my daughters other half runs a 21yo Toyota Hilux as his daily driver).
I'd happily chug around in a basic utilitarian vehicle - something like a tidy Renault 4 would do nicely..... I'd draw the line with electronics at the old CDi ignition that replaced points & condensers

 

[Wedg1e]

My 2p-worth... without re-reading the entire thread, has the OP tried disconnecting and reconnecting the car battery?
I only ask as one of our work vans was in for a tracker install and the battery lead was off.
When it was refitted the van wouldn't start no matter how long he cranked it. Tried taking the battery lead off, counting to 10 and reconnecting it, no different. Eventually one of the guys spotted a dash light flashing and decided it looked like an immobiliser warning. So he locked the van and left it for someone else to look at. About 20 mins later 'someone' turned up, unlocked the van and it started first turn.
Maybe cycling the power and a good long rest was all it needed

Another issue we've seen with the Peugeot Partners is if you put the ignition key in and whip it around to the cranking position, you get nothing. Turn it slowly, so the immobiliser has time to register, starts every time. First time I worked out what was going on I had to ask the guy why he was wrenching the key round so fast it was likely to snap...

 

[dobbslc]

Service life, pffffaaaaa, you can keep all that nonsense. I want to just keep things alive out of sheer spite at consumerism.

I like that statement a lot.

 

[Wedg1e]

@jmp49
You're right!
When I've been driving through France I enjoy looking at all the older cars still rolling around. You guys don't seem to be as superficial as the UK car buyers are, UK people in general!
These Muppets seem to think that having the latest BMW is the only important thing and don't worry about paying the food bills or replacing the bald tyres

I've noticed that the continentals also seem to be a lot more tolerant of minor scuffs and scrapes. I clipped a small Peugeot with a slightly larger Peugeot and broke her door mirror, waved at her to pull over so I could grovel and offer to fix it but she just smiled, shrugged and drove away...!
Over here it would be a shouting match, demands for the Police and a ten grand whiplash claim.
Even when you pick up hire cars that look like they've been in a demolition derby, you rush back to the hire office to point out the scrapes and dings and they just sigh and tell you to get on with it.

 

[Melvyn Best]

Never buy a car off a mechanic

The cobblers kids are the worst shod!

 

[Martin Hocking]

Well I’m considering changing Desmond’s name to Lazarus because he’s back up and running!

I’ve got to gobble a bit of humble crumble. Well quite a lot actually…

I gave @premmington a ring at the beginning of last week, and after a very informative and enjoyable half hour chin wag he felt that it probably wasn’t a key/immobiliser problem. He sent a distilled wiring diagram of the fuel injector circuit which would prove to be very very helpful indeed…

After sitting down with a cup of tea and the workshop manual and wiring diagram I felt suitably enlightened to go and have another stab at the problem…

Cue a bit of dark time car bothering and I pull the main fi relay to check for voltage at the terminals and notice there’s about 1 volt drop compared to the battery which was a bit flat from all the turning over. Out of curiosity I swap the relay over with the rad fan one as they are all the same and try starting up and low and behold there’s a bit of a cough and a splutter, bingo we have a bit of fuel again!

The next day after charging the battery desmond fires up again! Whoop whoop!

Fast forward a week or so and I’ve fitted a couple of replacement relays. I couldn’t find any new denso replacements online and used ones were nearly a tenner not to mention probably just as tired, so I bought some generic 4 pin 30a ones with a resistor in which seem to be what the denso ones were. And we’re back in business!


So in conclusion there are lessons to be learned here (well for me at least):

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing if hadn’t had a key issue with a previous car I wouldn’t have fallen for the red herring symptoms.

Speaking to someone with a lot more knowledge is always a good thing. Whilst I’m contractually obliged to tell you all how clever premmington is I really am very thankful to him and everyone else who’s chipped in with advice on this thread.

The welding forum delivers the goods yet again!

 

[Farside]

Yeah, well done, but just watch the cheapy relays. Go get some Bosch.