Car Lap patch

  1. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    Hello I was hoping to get some advice I have had some welding done on my car I asked for the work to be done to last but iv ended up with just a patch welded over the top of a hole I did treat the metal my self before the work with some Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 I will put some photos up of before the work and I will get some photos of the work after it was done later anyway all that was done was he ground back some of the rust and just welded a patch over the top, what I wanted to be done was the bad metal cut out and new put in any way my question is how long is this work likely to last as I wanted to keep the car long term I have put some more Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 over the patch I am also going to use some tiger seal over the weld joints and then underseal over the whole area but I am hoping this patch will last at least 12 months what are the chances of this?
     
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  2. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,122
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Is there a pic of the final patch?

    if the rust is removed and is fully sealed outside and inside a patch will last a long time. Butt welding is better but patch over is not the end of the world but not best practice.
     
    slim_boy_fat likes this.
  3. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    I will get some photos of it when I get home from work at 6 this evening
     
  4. Matchless

    Matchless Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Essex UK
    main thing would be to get oil or waxoil into the overlap area, that is where all the future rust will start, then seal over the top, seal the oil in, and keep an eye on it every year, I recently had an old customer contact me 18 years after we restored his very rusty BMW 2002tii and I do remember questioning his sanity restoring the original shell,

    The drivers floor and chassis rail had rusted badly, the car is 1973 and was restored 18 years ago, he did his own servicing only asking us to do the odd job over the years, if you have an older vehicle that has had rust repairs check it quite often and top up the waxoil or whatever, don't just trust that it will be as good as new, he actually accused me of not waxoiling and sealing the area 18 years ago...…….. and it lives outside as a daily driver, his only car!
     
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  5. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    I have put a coat of Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80-https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00672US20/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 over the area so far I will put a second coat of this evening then what I am going to do is put some tiger seal over the joints to seal them then some Hammerite Underbody Seal with Waxoyl -https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HOGOUHC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    the area where this is is the driver's wheel arch and the hole was into the car right near where the studs are for the accelerator pedal is and a backing plate for the brake pedal is I think this is why he just put a plate on but I think he could of at least cut some metal back and still got a good weld but not 100% sure hence why I got someone to do the work for me I just want it to last before I have pay out to have it done right
     
  6. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,122
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    You can paint over hydrate 80 with some epoxy and then some stonechip like Gravitex. Seal it all after first coat of epoxy with the tiger seal. What you are planning will be fine also though just need a little more upkeep.
     
  7. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    Here are some photos of the work
     
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  8. Matchless

    Matchless Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Essex UK
    I have seen far worse, treat it and you should have no problem, why did it rust out to start with, double skin or stress cracking?
     
    Ashley Burton likes this.
  9. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    yeah double skin
     
  10. steveo3002 Member

    Messages:
    5,431
    cambridge uk
    id epoxy it and if no access drill a neat hole and flood behind it with old engine oil or waxoil , will easy last a few years
     
  11. Popcorn

    Popcorn Member

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    'ull
    Just spray Tetroseal with added waxoyl over the whole area and as above waxoyl any cavities.
     
  12. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    yep that will pretty much guarantee plenty of rust . There cant be a worse product on the market than Waxol . The patch will last the year you want it to , overlapping patches is the fast and nasty way of passing mots , but what ever caused the rust in the first place will cause issues again , but its handy got at , so drive it for a year or two , and fix it better next time , but by then there will either be more places to fix , or you wont be driving it.
     
  13. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    5,856
    Location:
    moscow on thames
    I dont understand the problem with lapped or joggled joins, the whole car is made that way and worse still with only spot welds. Keep the moisture/air out and it should be ok, I have never seen any of the repairs I have done over the years fail :dontknow:

    Bob
     
    owas, Al Strachan, Nick DV and 5 others like this.
  14. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    when cars are made that way , they are sealed a a unit , as you say keeping air and moisture out , if you can over lap a joint and keep both of those out , no problem at all , but that tends not to be the case , the water that is all ready laying in the rest of the seam will sit in there and rot , it will sweat and spread and usually run further along the joint too , if all the bad metal and signs of rust are cut away , and then the overlap is sealed on both sides , there wont be an issue ,, here patch panels have to be seam welded all round , and joints made good to at least the original spec if its an mot fail , left clean and unpainted for re inspection too ... granted over the water its different . I find the newer waxol formula cracks , and lets water under it , and the wayol thats left traps the rest so it can start again . and old fashioned underseal is tragic too again on a brand new car thats never seen water or rust no prob , but by the time its getting thrown on with a schutz gun totally different , whats needed is a product that will actively displace the moisture and then form a seal. i welded a discovery yesterday , inner guards , the bits that had land rovers own white rubbery underseal on were genuinely as good as the day it was made ,,, about 96 i think ,, the bits without the underseal were on the floor ,, rot all from double seams , To cut out all the rot in those seams is un realistic , so its flat patch and make good , treat the rest of the opening seam with a product that will do as mentioned , and face the fact it will need done again in a few years , I still stand by anything Ive patched for three years , and that includes chassis ,, and if you know anything about patching chassis especially on old land rovers you will appreciate how good that is. Ive seen double skin patches needing redone for the next mot [ not repaired by me may I add]. Just my thoughts and findings , others may not agree ,,,
     
    eddie49 likes this.
  15. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,122
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Spray the inside with your hydrate 80, that will act as a corrosion inhibitor and primer for the bar steel and then spray in a wax like Dinitrol ML.
     
  16. David2020 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Thetford Norfolk UK
    when I say double skin I mean there was some kind of flexible stick patch of it this was factory this area is there it drains down from the engine bay so no standing water as such I think he just patched because be a fair bit of work as the brake pedal plant is on the back of this area
     
  17. Popcorn

    Popcorn Member

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    'ull
    Waxoyl is for cavities use Tetroseal with added waxoyl that doesn't crack and never fully hardens.
    All I can say is you must be doing something wrong if your having all these problems.......
     
  18. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    does oil float or sink on water.?

    Have you ever seen waxol used on aircraft ?
     
    Shedendman likes this.
  19. Popcorn

    Popcorn Member

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    'ull
    Is the earth round.......
     
  20. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    1,782
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    Ok , youve lost me there ,,
    Guess where the water lies in a joint when there is Wax and water present .. Ive never seen waxol used on aircraft , and its for many reasons , But the simple version is because there is better out there , Waxols formula changed and it got a far higher palm oil content , and with it came half of the problems , the other half were there all along .
     
    Shedendman likes this.
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