Car designers are crazy !

[Ubique]

Fleet management companies (through 1-link) are a PITA for auth'ing flexible servicing, which isn't surprising as they're managing something that was sold to them as 'service every nnnnn miles'. We've resorted to supporting the claim with a photo of the dash message before they even query it, even then we can get a 'can you do a diagnosis because there's clearly something wrong with it', we now leave it an hour and respond with 'diagnosed premature oil dilution due to drive cycle, requires engine oil & filter replacement' which they seem happy with, even if it costs them an hour of diag. to prove the point....

 

[AVI_8]

I’ve never bought a new car, always let someone else take the initial depreciation hit, problems with that nowadays is nearly everyone rents their new car with a pcp contract, and if you’re doing so why would you look after it by getting it properly serviced, instead cars nowadays get an oil and filter change every 18000 miles at best.

Which becomes a bit of a lottery when buying used cars, I tend to buy newer low mileage cars now because of this, less chance of trouble, for me 5000 miles or 1 year whatever comes first my cars get a service, maybe thats a bit of an old school way of thinking but back in the day when I worked as a mechanic that was pretty much normal, probably because of that I’ve never had an engine issue on a modern car, £50 every 5K for an oil/filter change is a cheap insurance in my mind for trouble free ownership.

But numpties on car forums seem to love a full dealer service history which might see an 80,000 mile car having had only 4 services at best, and then they wonder why when buying second hand why their timing chains/conrod bearings or whatever fails not long buying second hand.

And that’s before even mentioning so called “sealed for life gearboxes and diffs”

 

[Domdom]

I’ve never bought a new car, always let someone else take the initial depreciation hit, problems with that nowadays is nearly everyone rents their new car with a pcp contract, and if you’re doing so why would you look after it by getting it properly serviced, instead cars nowadays get an oil and filter change every 18000 miles at best.

Which becomes a bit of a lottery when buying used cars, I tend to buy newer low mileage cars now because of this, less chance of trouble, for me 5000 miles or 1 year whatever comes first my cars get a service, maybe thats a bit of an old school way of thinking but back in the day when I worked as a mechanic that was pretty much normal, probably because of that I’ve never had an engine issue on a modern car, £50 every 5K for an oil/filter change is a cheap insurance in my mind for trouble free ownership.

But numpties on car forums seem to love a full dealer service history which might see an 80,000 mile car having had only 4 services at best, and then they wonder why when buying second hand why their timing chains/conrod bearings or whatever fails not long buying second hand.

And that’s before even mentioning so called “sealed for life gearboxes and diffs”

Likewise on the depreciation. It always makes me think how overpriced new cars are if they depreciate that much. It seems that the true value is what someone would pay.

Full service history is a myth these days. What servicing is needed depends very much on how the car is used. And I really don't understand these "Long-Life" lubricants. All lubricants will get polluted with combustion fallout regardless of additives. I just change oil and filter every 10k km (6k miles) and be done with it. But it does seem to be the case that even this doesn't stop timing chain stretch or guide wear. That is also a maintenance item for me, especially if you look at older stuff like the Audi 4.2 V8 and the 5.2 V10. These are service items as confirmed by Audi themselves, but quite why it needs the engine to come out is beyond me, but it does IF the job is to be done well. And don't get me started on this wet belt BS, I cannot see a single reason why anyone thought this would be a good idea. Changing a dry belt can be problematic (awkward) enough but at least the wear detritus is kept out of the engine oil , or timing chains on the back of the engine (Ingenium) where either the engine or transmission has to be taken out to replace them.

Sealed for life gearboxes? I think the manufacturers mean sealed for the life of the warranty. And it's all BS. Take the ZF 6HP series as just one example. JLR say it's sealed for life,. The same box in BMW has a service interval of 60k miles. Maybe adding a transfer box magically cleans the main gearbox oil as it goes along? Clutch packs wear and this material is deposited in the oil, which eventually block the filter and causes valves and solenoids in the mechatronic to stop working properly. A major design flaw is the total inability to drain the torque converter, so just draining the pan gets half the dirty fluid out at best, unless you go for one of those Megaflush types of service, which main dealers don't seem to have. Having said all that, does "Lifetime" in this context mean the service life of the unit? In which case, when the fluid gets dirty and the unit fails, perhaps that's the end of its life. It's a whole heap of weasel words.

 

[bricol]

I often wonder if it is because, modern designers, learn everything in a class room and never had to fix anything before, to gain some practical ,real world experience.
Or is it because they will be young and feel the need to change something, just because they can, just to make it different?

I do see that in machinery design – people who have never had to fix their own car, bike, whatever, will design stuff you can’t get tools in to assembly, can’t get the part, the fasteners, the tools in as well as get to see what you need to do through the tiny access hatch.

Or have components welded around service items like bearings – so you can’t change them without an angle grinder to cut the frame apart.

Or design some over-complicated, expensive machine lid support mechanism . . . when a 10 quid bonnet stay ratchet slider mechanism from someone like Albert Jagger would do exactly the same thing.

 

[sako243]

Or have components welded around service items like bearings – so you can’t change them without an angle grinder to cut the frame apart.

I swear one of the hose clamp blocks on my Dad's dumper was the first item installed and the chassis of the dumper welded around it.

Only two sodding clamps on the hose, thankfully one I was able to cut an Allen key down and at finger tips reaching up inside the pivot point managed to crack it off. The second one I had to drop the transfer box, handbrake and propshafts to gain access to.

 

[bricol]

I swear one of the hose clamp blocks on my Dad's dumper was the first item installed and the chassis of the dumper welded around it.

Only two sodding clamps on the hose, thankfully one I was able to cut an Allen key down and at finger tips reaching up inside the pivot point managed to crack it off. The second one I had to drop the transfer box, handbrake and propshafts to gain access to.

A colleague in a previous life, when questioned about such design flaws, gave the one of two answers . .. neither of which exactly endeared him to the workforce . . .

“I’m an engineer, I’m always right”

“I design it, it’s your job to build it” - that in response to being asked why they could get the part and the fastener, or the fastener and the spanner, or the spanner and some body position to be able to see what they were trying to do through the access hatch, but never all four at the same time . .

I sometimes use those phrases when I know the recipient knows I’m extracting the michael, that I know I made a cock-up and knows I will sort it

 

[ibrooks]

I did once get asked by a very senior VP of something important on the third floor of corporate headquarters in Philadelphia why I didn't design stuff to use all the same size screw so only one tool was needed . . . because the M6 screw won't hold quite the same as the M30 needed here, and the M30 won't fit in the space where the M6 is used . . .

The Trabant went some way towards this. I think it was three different spanner sizes to remove any fastener on the car. I'm sure there were others.

Porsche supply a tool in the cars tool kit to remove cayenne headlights. Goes in through the inner wing and a 1/4 turn the headlight comes out. Probably the easiest bulb change I've ever done.

It was always funny when Porsches came into Halfords for a headlight bulb to be fitted and you asked them if they had the special tool that should be with the car as we didn't have one and they might have to go to Porsche to get the bulbs changed if they didn't have it. They'd get a bit of a wild look and then we'd say "let's check with the spare wheel kit" and sure enough there it was nestled in it's little recess in the polystyrene next to the jack, wheel brace and locking wheel nut key.
The new VW Beetle had a similar mechanism but done on the cheap out of plastic - always a nightmare.