Car based buggy

  1. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    Hi
    perhaps l should start with a little back ground info, my name is Andy l am based in Birmingham in the middle of the UK, l have always had an intrest in anything with an engine in it, mainly offroad stuff the usual landrovers follow by suzuki's etc but buggys are where l am at now,

    l have a honda pilot and a quad and they are great but l now want something with 2 seats as shooting around on your own gets boring after a while

    l did consider a bike engine but they have a 2 or 3 draw backs,
    the big dissadvantage l can see is the lack of reverse, l know you can over come this but it costs money and lots of it,
    they also tend to be noisey and where l intend to use it there are neighbours not to far away, so if l upset them they will ring the council and it will be game over,
    also bike engines lack torque compared to car engines ( l think ?) and when you add 2 people and a rollcage its quite a bit heavier than a bike
    also cost would be more with a bike, if l were to buy a bike as a doner all l would get off it would be the power plant where as if l bought a metro (as l have ) for less than £100 then l get the engine and cvt gearbox plus most of the suspension wheels tyres etc
    as l dont want to spend more than £1000 on this ( much less if l can ) then a
    car based buggy seems the way to go ?

    l am 2 weeks into this and have started welding the frame together,
    things have moved on from a metro to a mgf as a base
    l will try and post some pics shortly

    Andy
     
  2. Angusdog

    Angusdog Well-meaning amateur

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Wellington, NZ
    Nice project. So it's going to be mid/rear engined? And are you keeping the hydragas suspension? I suppose the saline qualities of english roads mean a steady supply of healthy engines for projects like this one ;)
     
  3. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    mid engine or rear engined ? l dont really know what you would call it, the engine and box are infront of the rear drive shafts which l would call mid engined
    but most folk would call an mgf rear engined ? l think
    yes plenty of rusty rover cars about cheap that and the headgasket problem that seems to afflick them means there is a plentifull supply of cheap rover k series engine on ebay
    am l going to use the hydragas suspension ? l think so, thats part of the reason for posting a biuld thread on here to get peoples opininons on things like the suspension, several people have told me to me ditch the hydrogas suspension and get some proper springs, theres plenty of conversion kits available but they are £150 ish, whats wrong with the suspension that comes with the metro or mgf ?

    heres the metro that l bought for £90, it was the cvt gearbox that attracted me to it, but the k series engine seems to have its advantages as well, all ally nice and light ranges from 1100cc to 2000cc turbo :cool:

    01 metro002.jpg

    02 metro005.jpg

    my first idea was to use the metro front subframe in the back complete with the metro engine and box but after doing a bit of digging around it soon became clear l would be better off using a mgf rear subframe, engine and box, virtually the same subframe but the hubs are already locked off to stop them steering and there are hand brakes biuld into the calipers which wouldent be on the metro hubs plus the gear change is already sorted with a pair of easily adaptable cables

    Andy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  4. Angusdog

    Angusdog Well-meaning amateur

    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Wellington, NZ
    I'm not sure about how the hydrogas suspension would work with the lighter weight but I dare say it could be adapted. I think you're probably right to try and keep it nice and simple. Or you could have the metro engine at the front and the MGF in the rear...
     
  5. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,077
    Location:
    Hull UK
    i would ditch the hydrogas suspension and just use conventional springs they take more abuse plus there is added cost of getting one recharged should one of them fail and you would then need a trailer for it to get to a garage to recherge it.
     
  6. TheJoker Member

    Messages:
    457
    Near Oxford, UK
    Hi Andy,

    One of my dreams is to build a buggy too. All the drawbacks you mention about the bike engine can be fixed. There are torquy engines, you can make them quiet, you can get a reverse gear (you can use a starter motor from a car for example), however, when you mention that you paid £90 for the whole car the bike engine suddenly seems very costly!

    When it comes to "where the engine is" it's very simple. If it's between the axles, then it's mid engined, if its' in front, or mostly over, the front axle then it's front engined. If it's behind the rear axle then rear engine. Some debate that the engine needs to be behind the driver to be mid-engined. If this is not the case then new BMWs could be called mid-engines as they've got the engine quite far back and front wheels quite far forward.
    Apart from VW, Porsche, Corvair, Tatra and old Skodas there's not many rear engined cars around. Most sports cars are mid-engined, such as Boxter, MR2, MG,.. etc. :)

    Either way, I'll put away my hair-splitter-tool now. Enjoy your build, and post lots of pictures! :)
     
  7. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    :o engine front and back, l like 4 wheel drive :cool: but it sounds too complicated
    and l know you were jokeing wer'nt you ? wer'nt you ;)
    best keep it simple l think
     
  8. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    well you are not alone in thinking that, everyone l have asked has said go back to springs, but l am still thinking about giving the hydro a go :o
    that way if it fails l will know not to use them again, but they come free with the subframe and are l assume adjustable by reducing/increasing the pressure,
    this will be important as the buggy should wiegh less than half of the orginal vehicle so if l go and buy the springs below then the spring rate will be for a metro/mgf so they are going to be too stiff ? and l expect them to be dear to have made to order as they are not the normal diameter ones,

    l was thinking about getting a second hand pump for filling the hydro units and valving them all individually so as l can play around with the pressures, l am hopeing a second hand pump will be less than one set of springs that l will have to guess the rate of anyway
    l realise using the hydro units maybe the wrong way to go but they are free and tyring them may rule them out for future use

    some metro conversion spring pics l found on the net somewhere

    03 metrospring3-1.jpg

    04 metrospring-1.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  9. chrisg3103

    chrisg3103 Forum Supporter

    if you want to keep it cheap you can 'individualise' the hydro units. you can buy the kit of can get the schrader valves off the rear and weld up one end of the pipe, means you can fill each unit individually. need to get another 2 valves for the front though, and take care bleeding the suspension! get high pressure antifreeze all over the place :laughing:

    alternativly if your going the rear wheel mgf type frame the mgtf had coilover suspension, bit pricey though

    and k's never came in 2l turbo, thats the T series, stands for ton :laughing: big cast iron block!
     
  10. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    Hi

    please dont think l am against motor bike engines they have their good points, in fact l need one for one of my other projects of which l have a few :whistle:
    l have this buggy looking for a power plant
    05 untitled-3.jpg
    it used to have a 500cc sled 2 stroke engine, very quick but un unusable due to the noise it generated, you wouldent want to be in the same county as it,
    l bought it with out the engine and plan to fit a mc engine or better still a quad motor since they have reverse if l can find one cheap

    l agree all my objections to a bike engine for the 2 seater buggy can be over come, but at some cost, a FnR reverse box from the states is $3000 and a second hand quaif reverse box is around £600, not to sure about the durability of the starter motor method and you usually loose quite a bit of ground clearance

    l am calling this an offroad buggy but thats the wrong description really, l should call it a gokart or grass track buggy as the intended use is on a grass track that is realatively smooth and undulating winding its way through the trees, so l dont see the limited wheel travel as to much of a limitation, heres the track l have access to
    06 buggytrack012.jpg

    07 buggytrack013.jpg

    08 buggytrack028.jpg

    09 buggytrack021.jpg

    10 buggytrack017.jpg

    11 buggysatfield245.jpg

    12 buggysatfield120.jpg

    13 buggysatfield541.jpg

    so you see l dont need to much articulation as the ground is fairley flatish, or at least it is just there as there are bits that siut a 4 wheel drive much better, hence my other project l would describe as a quad you sit "in" rather than on, its based on a subaru

    14 justy9001-1.jpg

    15 justy9002-1.jpg

    anyway enough of that one and back to my current biuld
    l started this with out doing enough home work really as l bought the metro thinking it was the way to go, it wasent so l doubt l will be using it on this,
    mgf is so much better for many reasons, what l really wanted was a steptronic type gearbox with paddle controls on the steering wheel to change gear, this dident appear on mgf's till later and were far out of my price range so l settled for an manual 1800cc mgf, these can be had on ebay for less than £400 and some times less than £200,
    after l got an mgf l found out the steptronic gearbox was fitted to the rover 200 cars with a 1600cc engine sometime before the mgf got them, you can get a steptronic rover cheap, what l should have done is bought a pair of mgf subframes and an steptronic rover car, but hey hoe its too late now l have got what l have got
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  11. Blod Member

    Messages:
    6
    Taunton, Somerset
    Hello mate, following your builds on another site.....

    Good to see you here.

    Rob
     
  12. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    yes l think thats what l want to do "individualise" the 4 suspension units, where do l get 4 valves or a kit any ideas ?
    yup did look at mgtf subframes, as you say to pricey for now,
    and yup already covered in green anti freeze :laughing:

    thanks Andy
     
  13. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    hi Rob
    how you doing,
    its a little slow on the other site, was looking for somewhere a little busier to get some feed back good or bad

    Andy
     
  14. Blod Member

    Messages:
    6
    Taunton, Somerset
    Good thanks, you?
    Seems much busier on here and there is a wealth of knowledge. I've spent hours trawling through here and found some interesting things.
    Seems there's always an opinion or two floating about........

    Rob
     
  15. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    yes l am fine thanks, and l agree there is sure is loads of good stuff on here, l am still wading through the projects section and as you say some very intresting stuff made by some very tallented people

    andy
     
  16. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    Right a bit of catch up to where l am now,
    heres the mgf rear subframe l bought

    16 mgfsubframe003.jpg

    17 mgfsubframe002.jpg

    18 mgfsubframe001.jpg

    the plan was to build a bench on wheels drop the rear subframe on the back and the front subframe on the front set them the right distance apart which in this case would be to give a 88" wheelbase, and then build my chassis to fit in between them and join them together, sounds nice and easy huh?

    19 mgfbuggy1016.jpg

    20 mgfbuggy1010.jpg

    21 mgfbuggy1012-1.jpg

    22 mgfbuggy1015-1.jpg

    23 mgfbuggy1017-1.jpg

    24 mgfbuggy1008.jpg

    25 mgfbuggy1009-1.jpg

    on the front subframe l have cut the section off that is in front of the bottom front wishbone mounting as l see no point in having anything stuck out in front of the wheels ?

    26 mgfbuggy2001.jpg

    27 mgfbuggy2004.jpg

    28 mgfbuggy2028.jpg

    29 mgfbuggy2022.jpg

    30 mgfbuggy2015.jpg

    31 mgfbuggy2009.jpg

    l have used the mgf electric power steering column although they also did a manual version as l want to fit a steering quickener to reduce the steering wheel turns down to around 1.5 turns lock to lock and as this will double the effort required to turn the wheel l thought the power steering would help

    32 mgfbuggy3004.jpg

    decide not to use the brake servo for 2 reasons, 1 l couldent easily fit it in without have a bulge on the bonnet and 2 as this is for use on grass or mud not tarmac l dident want sharp brakes that lock up all the time and slide, l thought l might get more feel without the servo but time will tell if thats a mistake or not :laughing:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2009
  17. TheJoker Member

    Messages:
    457
    Near Oxford, UK
    Absolutely love it! Keep posting the pics! :) :)

    With regards to a potential starter motor as reverse, you say it might reduce ground clearance?! I was more thinking of mounting it straight onto the rear axle or something like that where it's out of the way and can turn a gear somehow. If you'd gear it low enough it should do fine. I doubt you'll use the reverse gear for much, so short bursts (one or two buggy lengths) should be fine, especially with the engine running so it would have enough charge to operate.

    Either way, I'm just loving the way you're buliding that buggy out of the car bits. Looks awesome! :)
     
  18. 66-V8

    66-V8 Member

    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    .
    Baloo, when you've finished your project tomorrow, could you pop over and renovate my Daimler and perhaps I could mot it Monday?

    No rush like.
     
  19. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    mot monday :o whats wrong with saturday, :laughing:




    l did start a few weeks ago so l am still playing catch up with the photos,
    will post the last few later tonight to bring it up todate

    Andy
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
  20. Baloo Member

    Messages:
    790
    Birmingham
    only just read that l should be attaching the pics not linking to photobucket
    so just giving it a go :ashamed:
    mgf buggy 5 001.jpg
    ha it worked, do l need to go back and change all the others then
     
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