Bye bye diesel welders

[NickyEng]

bloody crap that you have to lose due to a big cooperation with massive buying power,who can get the huge initial purchase discount.
£50 a week is unbelievabley cheap to hire a machine like that

 

[Jim Davey]

It is'nt great but I can't look after a big diesel fleet by myself now anyway, we had two fitters on when we had all those machines in their heyday and it was manageable then. It's just me now and I'd struggle to keep on top of the maintenance of a big engine driven fleet now. Unless I knocked repairs on the head and just focused on hire I suppose. Don't like the idea of all the eggs in the one basket though.

 

[Welderpaul]

Do you do much on the Mosa sets Jim?

Arc Gen seem popular with pipe welders. We have a few subby pipe boys we use and they all use them.

 

[Jim Davey]

I avoid using MOSAs, never had any luck with them. I see far too many coming through the shop with low hours and expensive problems, not good value for money vs a proper engine driven like a Miller, Lincoln or Arcgen.

 

[Welderpaul]

Interesting Jim, We have a couple with no bother and most steel snagging gangs have a big Mosa bolted inside their van. Recently gone cr@p?

Do you do much with Lorch then?

 

[premmington]

Diesel welders come in for a really hard time on site, people push them around with JCB buckets, fill the tanks with water and dirty fuel, run them out of oil and shot-blast all over them to name just a few of the commonly occurring perils lol. It's hardly surprising they can develop reliability issues fairly early on in life.

The above is so true.

It is the reason we bought one and stopped hiring them in.

The hired ones kept breaking down!

 

[F.J.]

The guy that services my welders and bought my Ranger off also warned me off buying a Mosa. Two welders I know have them and love them but going off someone that see's more than his fair share of them I thought I'd go for the ranger. I've also got a smaller 225 Genset petrol genny which seems decent, hardly used it though as I bought it cos it was going cheap to clear his stock.

Shame you sold the lot as I am considering another Ranger for my 2nd van

 

[brightspark]

-its a hard life hiring things out . things have to be idiot-proof and people -putting--dirty fuel in is common its a shame --when a big company comes in and wipes u --out with low rental prices as u cant compete. they can do it because- they can offset the cost by saving in tax and- buying at a lower price

 

[NickyEng]

Its bad the way hire stuff gets treated generally, people wouldn't treat it like that if it was their own.

 

[Jim Davey]

Interesting Jim, We have a couple with no bother and most steel snagging gangs have a big Mosa bolted inside their van. Recently gone cr@p?

Do you do much with Lorch then?

They are popular because they seem good value, good features, weld well, not as dear as the other brands I mentioned but they often don't last as well and are pretty expensive on parts. The red Harrington 200 I posted a picture of us half thd money of a MOSA TS200 yet I've never had one beyond economic repair. Can't say the same for the MOSA machine.
I'm not a fan of the Ruggerini or Lombardini engines they throw into the diesels either.
Ok the Magicweld has got portability going for it but that's it.
As for Lorch I've not sold one yet.

 

[Bill Edwards]

What is it that generally packs up on the MOSA units, engines or electrical?
Engines I'm fine with but what is there to pack up on the electrical side of things, as presumably you're looking at a few windings and AVR stabilization which I wouldn't expect to be too complicated? Or is there a lot more to these things and I'm a looong way off?

Its bad the way hire stuff gets treated generally, people wouldn't treat it like that if it was their own.

I couldn't hire machinery out. To be honest, there are some people who do actually treat their own stuff as badly as well (money to waste) but hired stuff is always going to get the raw end of things. Sometimes I wouldn't be surprised if people are actively trying to see if they can make it break.

 

[Jim Davey]

A welder generator is a relatively simple beast but they can be aggro to work on. Some more than others. Faults are normally on the electrical side but not exclusively, there are a number of circuits, one for controlling the welding output via thyristors, a system to sense when the machine comes under load for the auto idle, chokes, capacitor banks, lots of wiring subject to alternating cold, heat, damp, oil, diret, fuel and vibration. Worst thing is the sheer compactness of most generators. It can make them very labour intensive to work on as you have to remove several things to get at components to test them. On a diesel MOSA or Genset it's a heavy one piece hood you can't take off yourself requiring two people to fit. They often bury chokes, capacitors and rectifiers in the base of the set where all the greasy dirt and any loose but/bolts will end up all trying to short circuit something . They often have a bulkhead where all the generator output/input wires pass through that can chafe and short out wires. And it's a complete strip down if a fault develops on rotor or stator. Frankly I'd rather pay extra for a really well designed set where all the cables are run in split conduit and cable tied, boards are potted in resin to keep nasties like moisture and vibration from damaging stuff, casings are thick so they don't rust out easily with proper paint not flaky powdercoat and that they are laid out with service/maintenance in mind rather than an afterthought. Add a noisy vibrating and hot air cooled diesel into the mix and you have a winning combo.

 

[HughF]

The mighty midget is as simple as they come, I guess that is why mosa went with a similar design for the magic weld. Permanent magnet, no slip rings, bridge rectifier, output choke...

Im not sure what the Hummel alternators were like on the max-arc sets, but rumour has it they were better. Similar design though.

Yes there is a fully potted pcb (I think it's potted and trayed, judging by the exploded diagrams), but I think it's quite a simple design. Certainly seems simpler than the msg series.

I guess every single rig welder in the us has an sa200 on the back for a good reason... As simple as they come and fully rebuildable.

 

[Bill Edwards]

A welder generator is a relatively simple beast but they can be aggro to work on. Some more than others. Faults are normally on the electrical side but not exclusively, there are a number of circuits, one for controlling the welding output via thyristors, a system to sense when the machine comes under load for the auto idle, chokes, capacitor banks, lots of wiring subject to alternating cold, heat, damp, oil, diret, fuel and vibration. Worst thing is the sheer compactness of most generators. It can make them very labour intensive to work on as you have to remove several things to get at components to test them. On a diesel MOSA or Genset it's a heavy one piece hood you can't take off yourself requiring two people to fit. They often bury chokes, capacitors and rectifiers in the base of the set where all the greasy dirt and any loose but/bolts will end up all trying to short circuit something . They often have a bulkhead where all the generator output/input wires pass through that can chafe and short out wires. And it's a complete strip down if a fault develops on rotor or stator. Frankly I'd rather pay extra for a really well designed set where all the cables are run in split conduit and cable tied, boards are potted in resin to keep nasties like moisture and vibration from damaging stuff, casings are thick so they don't rust out easily with proper paint not flaky powdercoat and that they are laid out with service/maintenance in mind rather than an afterthought. Add a noisy vibrating and hot air cooled diesel into the mix and you have a winning combo.

Crikey, now I see just how much trouble they can be.
At some point I'm hoping to get one or two welder generators when I come across them at the right price (a big 300a would be good and a portable one) and didn't realize just how much could give trouble for the silliest of reasons such as a chafed wire. I'd always figured that there shouldn't be much to go wrong other than the obvious engine side of things, and it hadn't crossed my mind that something like MOSA could be so badly designed.

 

[HughF]

Get a mighty midget Bill, simple, awesome arc, bucket loads of power (200a feels more like 250), comes on wheels, perfect for the sort of work you and I do - hence the reason I have one When the 2 stroke motor packs up on it, you can stick any old prime mover on there. For a big set I'd say lincoln or miller (there is a big blue 400 on ebay for £1500 with a deutz inside)

 

[Bill Edwards]

Yes, you pointed one out a while ago, but was 90 miles away and I didn't have any means of getting it home. They do sound like brilliant machines, but unfortunately I'm no longer in a position to hand start anything like that and with no real prospect of improving, so electric start or very very small petrol is all I can get.

 

[Jim Davey]

They aren't all that. Nothing engine driven and 20+ years old is, ancient windings, selenium rectifiers and still plenty of places for faults to hide. Go new or low hours used and go quality or simple, HGI or anything with an Italian Sincro generator on it for simple, Arcgen for quality.

 

[HughF]

The old orange Weld maker 150 looks rugged as a bear and reliable. Are the 200a Harrington AC sets any good Jim?

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'm a Yorkshire man
Spending enough to buy something new or nearly new - well, that's about as likely to happen as getting the pope into a strip club!
I had actually thought about asking you to see if you had anything small and cheap once I got access to a suitable vehicle, then looked at the map - 300 miles. Perhaps not.

Funnily enough I do have a 250a unit with a Ruggerini engine which gave us reliable service for year as a generator, I should fiddle with that again it just needs some work - engine is sweet but needs tidying and I think I once tried the welding output and it was far too low (i.e not working right), though that was a lot of years ago so can't be sure.

 

[Jim Davey]

Yes they are ok, less to go wrong than a dc as they forgo a rectifier, I do prefer the DC version, just need to keep on top of brush wear on the slip rings but they last ages and are cheap, just don't let them wear out and damage the slip rings or it's a full tear down to get the rotor out and replace the rings (which is easily avoidable by brush replacement)