Buying heating oil.

[slim_boy_fat]

Thanks chaps, we have a 2500-3000 litre tank and its a third ful now.

Can we assume it's sitting in an appropriately-sized bund? If that metal tank gets ruptured or rots through, there'll be Hell on.

 

[Burdekin]

Use Kerosene in the UK so we could use it on our jets. ;-) I remember hearing years ago an old farmer made diesel during the war with 2/3 Kero and 1/3 oil.

 

[fizzy]

Central heating oil and Jet fuel are almost identical. The US military run most of their lorries on it as well. They found it did have enough lube except in very hot weather so they use a lubricity additive - cooking oil does just as well...........

 

[fizzy]

Can we assume it's sitting in an appropriately-sized bund? If that metal tank gets ruptured or rots through, there'll be Hell on.

There was hell to pay when a tank leaked in a Welsh seaside resort - the local council was terrified it would hit the beach and cause a major disaster - funnily enough they used sand to soak it up - the bit that reached the beach was also soaked up by the sand!

 

[rtcosic]

Central heating oil and Jet fuel are almost identical.

Anorak rapidly donned.

We made DPK - Duel Purpose Kerosine. Met the specs for BS2869 Domestic Kerosine Class C2 ( for central heating boilers, not class C1 for Tilley lamps and wick burner open flue devices) and Jet Kerosine A1 (Avtur).

Obviously not to be confused with BS2869:

• Class A1 Diesel Engined Road Vehicles now BS EN 590
• Class A2 Gas Oil for boilers and off-road diesel engines ('Red' Diesel) now 10ppm sulphur same as DERV
• Class D 1000ppm sulphur Gas Oil for boilers (and may still be legal for diesel engines in Construction Equipment and Inland Waterways but I'm out of touch with that).

But you knew all that.

Some specs such as sulphur content are more rigorous for Domestic Kero than for Jet.

Jet was more expensive than Domestic because of additional testing and the various checks and restrictions on storage, mixing of batches and associated traceability. The actual stuff itself was the same.

Anorak removed with smug grin at remembering all that.

To confuse our international readers, in the UK we use Kero to BS2869 Class C2 for our boilers, the rest of Europe and North America uses the equivalent of BS 2869 Class D Gasoil.

To confuse further our readers in the United States of America, until very recently our BS2869 Class D for boilers was a higher specification than their Diesel for road going vehicles! Which may partly explain the dim view users had of diesel engined light vehicles in the past.

 

[daleyd]

Use Kerosene in the UK so we could use it on our jets. ;-) I remember hearing years ago an old farmer made diesel during the war with 2/3 Kero and 1/3 oil.

Jet engines will burn almost anything - marine gas turbines run on some proper rough old crud (DIESO being the navy designation for their version).

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Anorak removed with smug grin at remembering all that.

 

[wookie]

Use Kerosene in the UK so we could use it on our jets. ;-) I remember hearing years ago an old farmer made diesel during the war with 2/3 Kero and 1/3 oil.

Would that have worked because older diesels are less fussy than modern diesels ? or is it still bad practice ?

Not that I'm planning on doing anything like that but it's always good to learn stuff. The only old diesel I have is an old Lister generator but I have enough red stuff to keep that running constantly for a couple of weeks.

 

[fixerupper]

I now have an image in my head of budjet (pun intended) airlines running their planes on recycled chip fat from the canteen.....

 

[Burdekin]

Would that have worked because older diesels are less fussy than modern diesels ? or is it still bad practice ?

Not that I'm planning on doing anything like that but it's always good to learn stuff. The only old diesel I have is an old Lister generator but I have enough red stuff to keep that running constantly for a couple of weeks.

Couldn't really say. It was on the radio years ago, interviewing an old farmer about running his tractor during the war.

 

[normspanners]

It is dyed yellow now in the UK to stop this happening - but you are allowed to use cooking oil and that is yellow as well...............

but cooking oil doesnt turn red in acid
After August 2002, all European Union countries became obliged to add about 6 mg/L of Solvent Yellow 124, a dye with structure similar to Solvent Yellow 56, to heating fuel. This dye can be easily hydrolyzed with acids, splitting off the acetal group responsible for its solubility in nonpolar solvents, and yielding a water-soluble form. Like a similar methyl orange dye, it changes color to red in acidic pH. It can be easily detected in the fuel at levels as low as 0.3 ppm by extraction to a diluted hydrochloric acid, allowing detection of the red diesel added into motor diesel in amounts as low as 2-3%. The European Union has announced that has found a new and better marker to replace Solvent Yellow 124.[1] [2] [3] https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/science-update/new-and-better-euromarker-labelling-gas-oil-and-kerosene https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publica...markers-regarding-technical-requirements-call http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC107206/kjna28670enn.pdf

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Use Kerosene in the UK so we could use it on our jets. ;-) I remember hearing years ago an old farmer made diesel during the war with 2/3 Kero and 1/3 oil.

Are you sure he didn't mean TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil), alot of old tractors would run on either straight petrol or, once they had warmed up, TVO.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_vaporising_oil
It's a mixture of petrol and heating oil I think.

 

[normspanners]

Are you sure he didn't mean TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil), alot of old tractors would run on either straight petrol or, once they had warmed up, TVO.

Couldn't really say. It was on the radio years ago, interviewing an old farmer about running his tractor during the war.

No probably a diesel with what he said , older ones will run on it quite happily as mentioned.

 

[normspanners]

Construction Equipment and Inland Waterways but I'm out of touch with that).

2.2 Changes introduced on 1 November 2008
From 1 November 2008, fuel purchased for propelling private pleasure craft can no longer benefit from a reduced rate of duty but is subject to duty at the full rate.

Unmarked SFD can be used, alternatively marked gas oil, including marked SFD and marked bioblend (a mix of diesel and biodiesel), may continue to be used, but an amount equal to the rebate must be paid on the fuel used for propelling the boat.

 

[fizzy]

2.2 Changes introduced on 1 November 2008
From 1 November 2008, fuel purchased for propelling private pleasure craft can no longer benefit from a reduced rate of duty but is subject to duty at the full rate.

Unmarked SFD can be used, alternatively marked gas oil, including marked SFD and marked bioblend (a mix of diesel and biodiesel), may continue to be used, but an amount equal to the rebate must be paid on the fuel used for propelling the boat.

The British government was forced by the EU to tax red diesel for boaters. The government realised that there many people live on their boats or spend the weekends on them and never leave harbour so there is now a self declaration system. Any fuel used for heating, cooking or running a generator is still exempt! Of course Britain is a very cold country even in summer..................

 

[normspanners]

boilerjuice https://www.boilerjuice.com/

 

[normspanners]

The British government was forced by the EU to tax red diesel for boaters. The government realised that there many people live on their boats or spend the weekends on them and never leave harbour so there is now a self declaration system. Any fuel used for heating, cooking or running a generator is still exempt! Of course Britain is a very cold country even in summer..................

Crazy isnt it,we (???) come up with these ideas--------- road tax on the water !!!

 

[8ob]

We get through about 4500ltrs of fuel oil a month and have found that most of the suppliers are keen to quote cheap just to get the custom, you need to keep an eye on things because they soon start to leg up the price and over time you can end up paying over the top.Worth phoning around on every fill.

Bob

 

[fizzy]

Talking of storing heating oil is it still 100% kerosene or does it have added biofuels?

 

[rtcosic]

Talking of storing heating oil is it still 100% kerosene or does it have added biofuels?

As I said earlier I'm a little out of touch.
But as most kero is actually DPK and alcohol, FAME or other 'biofuel' cannot be added to Jet, I doubt if any Domestic Kero is so blended. Jet fuel stability specs exclude unstable blendstocks such as FAME.

When mandatory 'biofuel' blending was first introduced we only blended FAME into Gas Oil so that we avoided all the problems with its use in DERV. Agricultural & Construction equipment and furnaces are more tolerant of poor quality fuel. We avoided blending alcohol into petrol for all the obvious reasons.

The latter has probably changed now. I used to know which local service stations were served by which refinery so could avoid petrol from the one that started blending alcohol, but I'm as ignorant as the general population now.

The 'biofuel' evangelists persuaded the EU to ban the labeling of fuel so the addition of alcohol or FAME was hidden from consumers. They were concerned that so many consumers would select non-blended fuels that more retailers would make the absence of it rather than the presence of it an positive selling point.