Build up weld on anvil horn

[Screwdriver]

I may have posted a question like this before and the answer was no. But having actually used the anvil, the misshaped horn is a problem. It has a flat!

...and to make it more obvious:

So the idea is to build it up with weld. I pretty much have one of everything but I am guessing stick is best. Also the "best" welding rods I have are 4mm Filarc 56S: https://www.esab.co.uk/gb/en/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.product&productCode=410683&tab=4

I don't have the first clue whether or not they may be suitable or even ideal but I have enough of them and a big enough unit (Kemppi Kempotig 250 AC/DC).

First question is, will it work? The horn is cast steel on this anvil (I am pretty sure) so is not cast iron or high carbon. My other question being what to do about pre heat or heat soaking. Does it need to be pre heated and if not will I end up with a lot of stress in the horn. Also, would I need to stop and let it cool every so often?

 

[Parm]

If its that badly out of shape where has the metal gone?

I would have expected that the rest of the horn wouldn't have been so round

 

[TechnicAl]

I believe they can be cast or forged, probably the more expensive are forged.....then heat treated to remove and directionality and provide a hard yet ductile material. I think its high(ish) carbon steel.

Id use the 56S or a 7018 (dried first) to build up (preheat over 150oC) and then overlay with a 30Cr 5C harfacing alloy....one layer will dilute but should still be hard enough.....If my memory serves me well we did some like this for a college in Gloucestershire about 10 years ago and last time I heard they were still going strong.

 

[Screwdriver]

If its that badly out of shape where has the metal gone?

I would have expected that the rest of the horn wouldn't have been so round

No idea. Could actually be a manufacturing flaw because the whole horn looks a bit "squiffy" and there's a similar flat on the opposite side (underneath the horn).

It is even possible the flat has been beaten into it where someone has only used the horn because the top plate is virtually unused and perfect!

Unlikely though, my guess is someone ground it off so they could balance a flower pot on it...

 

[hotponyshoes]

I expect it's ment to be like that.
If you have something round and you want to make it straighter than you hit it over that bit.

If you want to make something flat rounder you hit it over the rounder bits round the side.

You can try welding it but I bet it won't work.
I would not buy a anvil with any signs of weld on it and most guys I know would only ever give scrap value at the most for one. (Although they would then paint it and sell it as a garden ornament for £100's!)

If you do weld it be careful about little chunks of weld or anvil breaking off and going into your arms or eyes etc.

If you want it rounder and it is cast steel then just grind off some of the sides rather than try and build up the flat bit.
8" flat discs will do the job nicely. Conover the whole bick at once and only do a couple of mins at a time then stop for a bit and let it cool off.

 

[Rig Pig]

I was looking at this article a while ago, may be just what you are after
http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm

 

[Stingray]

I was looking at this article a while ago, may be just what you are after
http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm

I am probably wrong but it says for repair to the horn use 6010, that’s the last rod I’d be using, 7018 or an electrode with high manganese composition would be my choice, Technical Al would be the person I would listen to!

 

[TechnicAl]

I was looking at this article a while ago, may be just what you are after
http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm

well I assume its a tried and tested method but it seems strange to me.....The Stoody 2110 is austenitic Mn steel, or 15Cr 15Mn steel....this steel suffers from very rapid grain growth which leads to cracking unless its kept cold...it needs quenching between passes....that wont be good for the horn material, assuming its high carbon steel that needs preheat....maybe you can do it without preheat but still the heat of weld followed by a quench doesnt sound good to me.
The stoody 1105 is a Martensitic low alloy, quite brittle so Id be a bit nervous hammering it
6010s seem a very strange choice....very high Hydrogen (30 mls or more) and High Carbon Steel are not a good combination.....there will be low stress so may not crack but why take the chance.
I am assuming it high carbon steel but even if its a low alloy it wont change much

 

[Screwdriver]

I think I "need" a round section for drawing out but I may even be wrong about that. This is not a large anvil, at 77KLGS (!) it is a very decent size but not a "beater". I have a handy large chunk of steel for proper sledgehammer action and maybe set up a round bar on that for drawing out or maybe a hardie tool.

I am definitely not going to heat it above 150C, I would start worrying about ruining the temper (if it wont heat evenly for example).

I have seen a number of articles on this subject so I have a flavour for what may be required. Not considered the idea that it is a "feature" which @hotponyshoes has suggested and while I am never going to sell it, I certainly don't want to ruin it.

I think it's probably best not to mess about with this anvil. Thanks for all the replies...

 

[brightspark]

get another and sell that one if your not happy with it

 

[Screwdriver]

get another and sell that one if your not happy with it

I LOVE it!

Are you kidding. Its a lovely little thing

 

[Paul.]

Welding technicalities aside, I don't believe that that anvil is particularly worn, I've spent more than enough time working on and around anvils and I reckon they were all more or less a similar shape, If you really need a full radius why not buy a lump of round bar and mount it on a wooden block, or weld a bar to it and hold it in a vice if its only for light work.

 

[Screwdriver]

I am beginning to think it is a feature. Looking at the bottom photo you can see the horn has exactly the same flat directly opposite the one on top. So I think I will leave it as is and make up a beater from some odd chunks I have been collecting , including a really decent length of railtrack.

 

[Paul.]

including a really decent length of railtrack.

Here's mine, the horn is a piece of 2" feather edge bar welded on, I only use it for cold light work, not forge work

 

[Screwdriver]

A bit more digging around and it would appear the Brooks anvil is notorious for having this shape to the bick.

I guess I could just pick up another one and play around with that. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brooks-1...952271?hash=item41f25b6d4f:g:0hsAAOSwVBVb2e3I

Bit pricey now tho...

 

[Parm]

A bit more digging around and it would appear the Brooks anvil is notorious for having this shape to the bick.

I guess I could just pick up another one and play around with that. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brooks-1...952271?hash=item41f25b6d4f:g:0hsAAOSwVBVb2e3I

Bit pricey now tho...

Swap one for a vice you have for sale, if it’s not sold

 

[Screwdriver]

Swap one for a vice you have for sale, if it’s not sold

Ooh. Tempting. PM me some pics. This thing weighs about the same as my anvil!

 

[Parm]

No, no. I haven’t got anything to swap or sell. I was suggesting why don’t you swap one of your vices for an anvil

 

[Screwdriver]

Yeah, it's got to go. But I will make up a beating anvil from found materials. Really ought to do some welding and really ought to film it for the forums amusement.

 

[Hitch]

No, no. I haven’t got anything to swap or sell. I was suggesting why don’t you swap one of your vices for an anvil

Or just use a vice like an anvil like some do