Brake Line Flares - Help!

[Dilkris]

I'm sure i had this problem once before, is it to do with the setting depth ?

I'm trying to find out - I just so wish you could remember how you solved the problem

 

[Dilkris]

This is mine

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Thanks for taking the trouble to post pics - my stuff is identical to this - you didn't photo the small container of red grease

 

[Dilkris]

It doesn't look like the tubing, or the flare itself is turning. Only that the punch, as it's being screwed in, is imparting a turning moment onto the flare, as it's forming, and creating the stresses that might possibly cause it to collapse. Relieving those stresses with an extreme pressure grease, might be enough to stop it.

Your observation is plausible - I haven't tried "more grease" - will try tomorrow when I have calmed down.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Could you mark the inserted brake pipe...then incrementally screw in the punch a couple turns/part turns, take tool apart each time to check what it's doing inside. You might find theres a stage where the flare is good...and then its getting damaged as you continue turning.

My thought was too much material...and it has to go somewhere!

On mine the setting nut screws totally flat with the case of the tool...no gaps.

 

[Dilkris]

A picture of the end of the die would also be useful to see if it that is malformed.

You should still be able to get a reasonable flare with that tool almost every time - the issue I had with them was the threads didn't last and stripped out.
I also used a cheap clamp type tool like the one above for yonks and it was very hit and miss to get a good flare. The sykes type makes a perfect flare effortlessly every time.

Will photo tomorrow and post.
Yes - the tool is regarded very highly with great success rates on many forums of idiots like me rebuilding classic cars.
I'm sure the sykes type are wonderful - but I am retired - my money tree is dead and I am rebuilding this car is a hobby.....

 

[steveo3002]

no one local loan you the flare tool or pop round and use it?
id offer to let you use mine but im miles away , does sound like your flare tool has a defect

 

[Dilkris]

no one local loan you the flare tool or pop round and use it?
id offer to let you use mine but im miles away , does sound like your flare tool has a defect

I agree - something is not right but I just cannot sort out what.
I have a friend down the road with an identical tool - I'm going to try his tomorrow.

 

[Erie Fred]

OK - please see attached photo's, many of which should answer points previously made. I have now literally tried everything, using oil as opposed to grease as lubricant and even annealing the last 5mm of the end of the brake pipe - all to no avail. I have even tried using brake pipe from differing suppliers.
I simply cannot reliably reproduce a good flare - I make 1 good one - then 5 bad - the last photo shows some of the results, out of 25 attempts, 18 of them I would classify as failures and only 7 are good.
I pretty much give in with this and am ready to dig a big hole and bury the whole project - I have been at this for some days and for something so straight forward it is seriously getting me down
A friend of mine uses the same system and I am going to borrow his to see if the fault lies within the die and the punch itself.

View attachment 454769

This pix is causing me concern.
Is this just after cutting with the wheel ?
Looks like material is pushed down into the ID.
which tubing cutters do.
Can you take a small countersink tool, and run it on the end there to clean out the ID ?

 

[steveo3002]

i debur mine with a tool similar to this

 

[Slowcoach]

Can’t work out what’s what too well but is the marked bit causing a problem? Does it correspond with the deformity

 

[Morris]

Certainly doesn't look right. Any chance of a photo of it split so that we can see where that is.

 

[voipio]

Post #27 has a photo of the die split view. Doesn't look like it's the cause of the deformation.

A close up, face-on view of the OP1 end of the punch would be interesting.

 

[Blue Chips]

i debur mine with a tool similar to this

This pix is causing me concern.
Is this just after cutting with the wheel ?
Looks like material is pushed down into the ID.
which tubing cutters do.
Can you take a small countersink tool, and run it on the end there to clean out the ID ?

Agreed. It looks like the ID needs a touch more deburring.

It doesn't look like the tubing, or the flare itself is turning. Only that the punch, as it's being screwed in, is imparting a turning moment onto the flare, as it's forming, and creating the stresses that might possibly cause it to collapse. Relieving those stresses with an extreme pressure grease, might be enough to stop it.

I'll second that. An EP lubricant might help.

The quality of the interface surface of the screw-in punch could also be a factor. For example, if it isn't smooth enough, there might be more twisting force applied to the tubing.

 

[jimbo84]

I don't do brake pipes but I have that same cutter for copper pipes and it puts a big inward push on the pipe, folds the edge over inwards (not sure of the correct term). Could that be the cause of the issue, maybe try a different cutter?

 

[Erie Fred]

Agreed. It looks like the ID needs a touch more deburring.


I'll second that. An EP lubricant might help.

The quality of the interface surface of the screw-in punch could also be a factor. For example, if it isn't smooth enough, there might be more twisting force applied to the tubing.

Yes !
The double flare tools i have, the forcing cone swivels so that as the screw turns, the cone does not.
With the tools pictured here, there is a sliding & burnishing going on.
While that may be desired, adding EP lube would help here I would think.

 

[Melvyn Best]

Even after cutting the with a pipe cutter or hacksaw I always nip the pipe in a vice and use a file to make sure the cut is square then remove any burrs using a small tapered cutting tool down the bore and part of an old flaring tool or file to clean the outside. Even using my SP tool the pipe get the same treatment .. I’ve been making brake pipes for well over 50 years and this method has never failed to produce a good flare

 

[steveo3002]

could you be too rough with the cutter? if you wind the blade in too fast /hard it might deform the pipe more than you would like

 

[jsf55]

I tried mine yesterday afternoon ... but i went out last night hope it helps ? i only dabbed a bit of Rocol tapping compound on it as it was too hand !

 

[Dilkris]

Will photo tomorrow and post.
Yes - the tool is regarded very highly with great success rates on many forums of idiots like me rebuilding classic cars.
I'm sure the sykes type are wonderful - but I am retired - my money tree is dead and I am rebuilding this car is a hobby.....

Please see attached photo of the die. I can see no obvious fault here

 

[Dilkris]

I tried mine yesterday afternoon ... but i went out last night hope it helps ? i only dabbed a bit of Rocol tapping compound on it as it was too hand !
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Thanks jsf55 - I know and understand - they are simplicity in themselves to use and no body yet has experienced the same issue as I am having - I believe the issue has to be in the tool.