Best fire extinguisher for garage?

[Robotstar5]

Not sure what the risk assessment was when they built the new factory to build the Metro in the late 70's, but I think the fire requirement were covered.

The sprinkler system was powered by an electric pump with a back-up pump in case that failed and a diesel pump in case the electric went off and if all else failed, there were 2 big tanks on the hill above the pump house that could gravity feed the sprinklers for a minimum of 15 minutes.

Sidenote: every column in the building had a hose reel and when the inside was being fitted out the contractors would use them when core drilling the floor, the downside was the water flow would be detected and set off an alarm in the works fire station causing the fire trucks to be turned out, notices appeared on every hose reel and contractors warned they would be thrown off site if caught using them.

 

[addjunkie]

As to no £££££££££££££££££
A simple Mine sweeper has a a minimum of 3 Thermal fire cameras. That was at one point the same amount on the Isle of White.

As in fixed thermal cameras for fire detection or portable ones? Do we still mine sweep in the traditional way with wires and floats or is it more hi tech mine hunting these days?

Not sure what the risk assessment was when they built the new factory to build the Metro in the late 70's, but I think the fire requirement were covered.

The sprinkler system was powered by an electric pump with a back-up pump in case that failed and a diesel pump in case the electric went off and if all else failed, there were 2 big tanks on the hill above the pump house that could gravity feed the sprinklers for a minimum of 15 minutes.

Sidenote: every column in the building had a hose reel and when the inside was being fitted out the contractors would use them when core drilling the floor, the downside was the water flow would be detected and set off an alarm in the works fire station causing the fire trucks to be turned out, notices appeared on every hose reel and contractors warned they would be thrown off site if caught using them.

Back then sprinkler and deluge type systems were a simple calculation of so many litres per sq meter per minute. Following a few big fires Piper Alpha included, its now done a bit more scientifically directing water where it needs to go, looking at the worst case scenario. All part of the risk analysis before it’s built hopefully. There was also probably co2 systems in the switch rooms one of a sites biggest risks. These have evolved a bit too since then with detection and castel type interlocks to stop it going off if you are in there.

 

[Robotstar5]

Back then sprinkler and deluge type systems were a simple calculation of so many litres per sq meter per minute. Following a few big fires Piper Alpha included, its now done a bit more scientifically directing water where it needs to go, looking at the worst case scenario. All part of the risk analysis before it’s built hopefully. There was also probably co2 systems in the switch rooms one of a sites biggest risks. These have evolved a bit too since then with detection and castel type interlocks to stop it going off if you are in there.

We did have CO2 in the switchrooms/substations,, but before you went in the first port of call was the cylinder room where you could mechanically lock out the discharge mechanism by unscrewing a knurled wheel and moving it to the lock position before tightening it again

One of the apprentices went in and knew he had to make the system safe before entering so pressed a big button marked "discharge" the resultant cloud of CO2 went through the louvres on the substation doors and forced the track workers to abandon the production line

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Read somewhere recently that an airport in the Mid-West had carried out so many foamy-type fire drills (as well as some genuine stuff) over the years, that the foaming agent had poisoned the groundwater for miles around.

There's tens of thousands of sites like that globally, the entire island of Jersey has the same problem.

I remember reading up on it when I first came across PFAS as a young graduate, and finding a very old web 1.0 website that basically detailed the whole story of the landfill and contamination event that the film "Dark Waters" is about.

It's only since that film came out anyone has begun to take the issue remotely seriously.



But the whole thing is a bit of a farce, when I started in the hazardous waste industry as a grad over 15 years ago BP, Shell and Talisman were already destocking all of their fluropolymer AFFF because they had internally identified the liability associated with PFOS/PFAS, expecting it to be "the next PCB's"...

We were accepting it as non-hazardous waste (because that was the legal classification), but paid a significant premium to ensure it all went to High Temperature Incineration, or was blended into cement kiln fuel to ensure it was adequately destroyed with no come-back to our clients.

Meanwhile manufacturers were still burying their heads in the sand, and doing their best to keep the regulators in the dark.



My last UK based employer used to accept 10-12 tankers a week of PFAS contaminated run-off from several airbases, which we ran through huge activated carbon scrubbers to remove the PFAS, then regenerated the carbon and used a catalytic reactor to break down the PFAS into Fluoride and Carbon Dioxide...

At the time we took the contract there was no legal standard for the amount we could discharge in the effluent, so we agreed with the water company to meet the drinking water standards on that effluent, and an EA inspector auditing us noted "you could legally tip that down the drain as is, you know".



Being able to remediate PFAS cheaply is now a gold-rush in the Environmental Remediation sector, with everyone and their dog claiming they can work miracles with some new technology, but very few if any projects demonstrating any of these technologies actually working in the real world.



More annoyingly now a film has made it a cause celebre, people have lost all sense of proportion about the exposure risk (drinking it every day for your whole life probably quite bad, a tiny residue on your rain-coat, or a trace of a trace in a medicine you take once in your life, probably fine)...

So regulators are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and talking about banning all manner of flurochemicals which are absolutely essential to medical devices, pharmaceuticals, food production, and the like.

Grumble.

 

[fizzy]

There's tens of thousands of sites like that globally, the entire island of Jersey has the same problem.

I remember reading up on it when I first came across PFAS as a young graduate, and finding a very old web 1.0 website that basically detailed the whole story of the landfill and contamination event that the film "Dark Waters" is about.

It's only since that film came out anyone has begun to take the issue remotely seriously.



But the whole thing is a bit of a farce, when I started in the hazardous waste industry as a grad over 15 years ago BP, Shell and Talisman were already destocking all of their fluropolymer AFFF because they had internally identified the liability associated with PFOS/PFAS, expecting it to be "the next PCB's"...

We were accepting it as non-hazardous waste (because that was the legal classification), but paid a significant premium to ensure it all went to High Temperature Incineration, or was blended into cement kiln fuel to ensure it was adequately destroyed with no come-back to our clients.

Meanwhile manufacturers were still burying their heads in the sand, and doing their best to keep the regulators in the dark.



My last UK based employer used to accept 10-12 tankers a week of PFAS contaminated run-off from several airbases, which we ran through huge activated carbon scrubbers to remove the PFAS, then regenerated the carbon and used a catalytic reactor to break down the PFAS into Fluoride and Carbon Dioxide...

At the time we took the contract there was no legal standard for the amount we could discharge in the effluent, so we agreed with the water company to meet the drinking water standards on that effluent, and an EA inspector auditing us noted "you could legally tip that down the drain as is, you know".



Being able to remediate PFAS cheaply is now a gold-rush in the Environmental Remediation sector, with everyone and their dog claiming they can work miracles with some new technology, but very few if any projects demonstrating any of these technologies actually working in the real world.



More annoyingly now a film has made it a cause celebre, people have lost all sense of proportion about the exposure risk (drinking it every day for your whole life probably quite bad, a tiny residue on your rain-coat, or a trace of a trace in a medicine you take once in your life, probably fine)...

So regulators are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and talking about banning all manner of flurochemicals which are absolutely essential to medical devices, pharmaceuticals, food production, and the like.

Grumble.

And they use ammonia in fridges which then leak in hospital wards
Also annoys me that power boats are banned from most British reservoirs and may lakes again due to pollution. And yet most countries in the World actively encourage it. The Italian lakes and many in the USA have all sorts of powered watercraft

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Going back to @JOEPRO 's question...

Get Several types, and have more & bigger than you think you need, easily to hand around the place.

I have two pairs of 9Kg Powder and 5kg CO2 extinguishers at each end of the workshop, the same strapped to the floor in the gap behind the passenger seat of the Pickup, and a set that I will take outside with me when welding vehicles.

I should really get at least one Foam one for the workshop too, as they're better for flammable liquid pool fires than powder.

there one type that does most every thing but not cheap

so a mix of water and co2 would lightley be the cheapest and easy to get

if you got a few fire companys around id be speaking to them see if they are getting rid of a few for a few beers that are out of date or such ?

FireXO market them in the UK, they're actually pretty good value for money, especially considering they can deal with Flammable Metal and Li-Ion battery fires (which would usually require a special extinguisher)

I think Purple-K is the other type, which is just a much more effective standard powder, that's compatible with foam for use in twin-agent systems. You can't use "normal" and Purple K powder at the same time though as they react under fire conditions rendering eachother ineffective

and dont get a powder one went to a pub on a callout and a cable was bright red on the end in the fusebox and stinking a bit . the clown chef squirted over everything in the leccy cupboard and bu.ggered the lot up not just the one. a nice big 3 phase board copped it as well i have a couple of co2 ones i got given there ideal

Powder is a great extinguisher of last resort, or to grab for an "OH ****" situation where the cause of the fire is unclear, works on most fires, minimal risk of electrocution.

They do make a tremendous mess, and I'd always prefer to use CO2 on an electrical fire, but realistically they still make much less mess than your property burning down.

 

[bricol]

And they use ammonia in fridges which then leak in hospital wards
Also annoys me that power boats are banned from most British reservoirs and may lakes again due to pollution. And yet most countries in the World actively encourage it. The Italian lakes and many in the USA have all sorts of powered watercraft

Many of the US lakes and reservoirs have restrictions too. You have to register for, and display permits, and some are only accepting renewals for some classes of powered craft - if you let it lapse too long, or buy a new boat, you can't get a permit.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Also annoys me that power boats are banned from most British reservoirs and may lakes again due to pollution.

I think that's a consequence of water companies trying to avoid spending money (quelle surprise!) on pre-treatments, and how incredibly dependent we are on infrastructure which hasn't been expanded in line with the population it supports.

Having water treatment people working for me, I know tiny quantities of hydrocarbons can react with the chlorination process to render water undrinkably foul-tasting even at a parts per billion level... Equally small quantities of hydrocarbons can properly destroy some of the membranes used in more modern potable water production technology.

 

[fizzy]

I think that's a consequence of water companies trying to avoid spending money (quelle surprise!) on pre-treatments, and how incredibly dependent we are on infrastructure which hasn't been expanded in line with the population it supports.

Having water treatment people working for me, I know tiny quantities of hydrocarbons can react with the chlorination process to render water undrinkably foul-tasting even at a parts per billion level... Equally small quantities of hydrocarbons can properly destroy some of the membranes used in more modern potable water production technology.

All the Italian lakes manage fine. Hired boats many times. They also have hydrofoils running and a seaplane school.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

All the Italian lakes manage fine. Hired boats many times. They also have hydrofoils running and a seaplane school.

Depends on the residence time of water in the lake/catchment, the infrastructure that's treating the water from the lakes, the location and depth of the draw off point, and how much they actually draw down the lakes.

Our infrastructure is ancient and stretched to breaking point, whilst we also frequently end up drawing reservoirs down to basically empty at this point...

 

[brightspark]

Going back to @JOEPRO 's question...

Get Several types, and have more & bigger than you think you need, easily to hand around the place.

I have two pairs of 9Kg Powder and 5kg CO2 extinguishers at each end of the workshop, the same strapped to the floor in the gap behind the passenger seat of the Pickup, and a set that I will take outside with me when welding vehicles.

I should really get at least one Foam one for the workshop too, as they're better for flammable liquid pool fires than powder.




FireXO market them in the UK, they're actually pretty good value for money, especially considering they can deal with Flammable Metal and Li-Ion battery fires (which would usually require a special extinguisher)

I think Purple-K is the other type, which is just a much more effective standard powder, that's compatible with foam for use in twin-agent systems. You can't use "normal" and Purple K powder at the same time though as they react under fire conditions rendering eachother ineffective




Powder is a great extinguisher of last resort, or to grab for an "OH ****" situation where the cause of the fire is unclear, works on most fires, minimal risk of electrocution.

They do make a tremendous mess, and I'd always prefer to use CO2 on an electrical fire, but realistically they still make much less mess than your property burning down.

providing there in the right hands and directed at a flame not just an overheating wire that can be seen and leaving everything powered up and blast everything in site

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

providing there in the right hands and directed at a flame not just an overheating wire that can be seen and leaving everything powered up and blast everything in site

There's no accounting for idiocy...

Well, at least every time I have tried to, someone found a bigger idiot.

 

[addjunkie]

Going back to @JOEPRO 's question...

Get Several types, and have more & bigger than you think you need, easily to hand around the place.

I have two pairs of 9Kg Powder and 5kg CO2 extinguishers at each end of the workshop, the same strapped to the floor in the gap behind the passenger seat of the Pickup, and a set that I will take outside with me when welding vehicles.

I should really get at least one Foam one for the workshop too, as they're better for flammable liquid pool fires than powder.




FireXO market them in the UK, they're actually pretty good value for money, especially considering they can deal with Flammable Metal and Li-Ion battery fires (which would usually require a special extinguisher)

I think Purple-K is the other type, which is just a much more effective standard powder, that's compatible with foam for use in twin-agent systems. You can't use "normal" and Purple K powder at the same time though as they react under fire conditions rendering eachother ineffective




Powder is a great extinguisher of last resort, or to grab for an "OH ****" situation where the cause of the fire is unclear, works on most fires, minimal risk of electrocution.

They do make a tremendous mess, and I'd always prefer to use CO2 on an electrical fire, but realistically they still make much less mess than your property burning down.

Having played with a twin agent setup when under going fire training, the powder knock down and foam blanket is extremely efficient, gold standard on helidecks, along with the oscillating foam monitors. But over kill for the shed, Im just CO2 and foam. A friend of my fathers used a powder inside a yacht. 15 years later he was still finding the stuff.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Simple.
If the garage is private, not for making money.
Plus under 200m2.
1 x 6lt foam.
1 x 2kgco by main entrance.

1 x 6lt foam, near next biggest risk or secondary exit.



Any thing else, drop me a pm.

Business.
Simple.
Get a risk assessment.

 

[Turbo]

Having played with a twin agent setup when under going fire training, the powder knock down and foam blanket is extremely efficient, gold standard on helidecks, along with the oscillating foam monitors. But over kill for the shed, Im just CO2 and foam. A friend of my fathers used a powder inside a yacht. 15 years later he was still finding the stuff.

When marshalling on a rally stage we used to carry the extinguishers out to the end of the stage to save the bloke having to drive through the whole stage to collect them.
Then a powder one went of in a marshals car. The car was nearly being written off but they had to replace all the interior cloth bits.
Not sure who paid but we got a letter from the marshals association that in future we carried extinguishers in our cars at our own risk.

 

[Turbo]

A work colleague was working at an electric fork lift. A can of wd40 fell, shorted out some contacts and went on fire.
Someone watching panicked and grabbed a powder extinguisher. Mate stopped them using it and used a co2 to put the fire out after isolating the battery.
He knew the mess the powder would cause and it would put the truck out of action until it was cleaned up.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

When marshalling on a rally stage we used to carry the extinguishers out to the end of the stage to save the bloke having to drive through the whole stage to collect them.
Then a powder one went of in a marshals car. The car was nearly being written off but they had to replace all the interior cloth bits.
Not sure who paid but we got a letter from the marshals association that in future we carried extinguishers in our cars at our own risk.

No sympathy.
That's is why pins and tamper tags are fitted.


Now, a lot of insurance companies will not pay out.

 

[Turbo]

No sympathy.
That's is why pins and tamper tags are fitted.


Now, a lot of insurance companies will not pay out.

You have never did rally marshalling then!
Part of the job is to help tidy the road stage. That means gathering up warning tape, signs, wooden posts, etc along maybe 10 miles of road. And bring it to the end of the stage. So your boot becomes a mess with all that stuff in it.
You are often doing this on limited sleep so a mistake can be made.
And all this is as an unpaid volunteer, giving up your time and using your own fuel to go to an event maybe 300 miles away, help set it up and take it down. I put 10,000 miles on my car in 1 year just going to motorsport events to marshal.
It's easy for something to get thrown on top of the extinguisher and knock the pin out. They don't always have tamper tags fitted. They lead a hard life getting transported to different motorsport events every weekend. They are left at the side of the rally stage on a grass verge and get a hard life. Not the pampered life of hanging on a wall in an office somewhere.
They are chipped, dented but they are checked every week before they go on an event. Plus we are advised to check our extinguishers when we arrive on location.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

You have never did rally marshalling then!
Part of the job is to help tidy the road stage. That means gathering up warning tape, signs, wooden posts, etc along maybe 10 miles of road. And bring it to the end of the stage. So your boot becomes a mess with all that stuff in it.
You are often doing this on limited sleep so a mistake can be made.
And all this is as an unpaid volunteer, giving up your time and using your own fuel to go to an event maybe 300 miles away, help set it up and take it down. I put 10,000 miles on my car in 1 year just going to motorsport events to marshal.
It's easy for something to get thrown on top of the extinguisher and knock the pin out. They don't always have tamper tags fitted. They lead a hard life getting transported to different motorsport events every weekend. They are left at the side of the rally stage on a grass verge and get a hard life. Not the pampered life of hanging on a wall in an office somewhere.
They are chipped, dented but they are checked every week before they go on an event. Plus we are advised to check our extinguishers when we arrive on location.

The point of the tamper tag and pinis a simple,e visual indication of the state of the unit.
Missing or out.
Means, in the eye of the law.
It has been used and may not work correctly when needed.

Yes I have done marshals Jobs.

 

[Robotstar5]

Rallying, when I did recovery I had to carry 2 dry powder and 2 foam extinguishers, I was told the vibration of driving could pack the dry powder down so it didn't work properly, so on arrival at my post I would invert the dry powder extinguishers to make sure the powder wasn't packed down, not sure if it was an "old wives tale", maybe @The_Yellow_Ardvark can advise?.