Aston Martin Reversible Electric Conversion

[rtbcomp]

^^ If the 3000 mile battery becomes a reality that won't be such a problem. The problem I see with interchangeable batteries is that you'll need a way of getting credit for any power left in the battery when you swap it. For example if you have 10 miles left and you have a 100 mile journey to make you're more likely to want a full battery at the start of the journey, like you'd fill the tank before setting off. You wouldn't empty a petrol tank at the petrol station before filling it. I suppose you could have two batteries in the car, one empties before the other starts to be used, then you'd have a better chance of finding a "swapping station" to swap the empty battery. There would have to be standardisation between different makes of car.

Physically handling the battery might be a problem so you'd need staff on hand to do the swap.

 

[R-D-R]

Re electric cars being soulless. I’m lucky enough to own and have owned some pretty decent cars. Electric are by far the most thrilling to drive with gut wrenching performance.

The lack of noise is something that takes a lot of getting used too. If anything it adds to the experience though.

Charging is key to any decision to move to electric at the moment. You have to shift away from the concept of filling it up and waiting till it’s empty. Treat it like a mobile phone and plug it in at night regardless and it becomes seamless for commutes. If you can’t charge at home that’s where the logistics will impact a decision to purchase until things improve.

 

[stuvy]

If I’m driving and something special comes towards me I always crack the window the same with bikes

You can’t even say ev’s look nice they look like a clay model with the edges rubbed soft

It can be fast but you have to have the right model with ludicrous(not all have this) as you can only use it a set amount of times before it initially overheats the battery and motor and runs out of charge then takes ages to replenish

 

[B20]

I agree with "Cobbler" ques to charge the stupid things.
And where is the Green Electricity coming from to charge them,
http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=13832
When the Wind dont blow and night time we use Diesel!!!
Or the deal some Electic companies have to buy pellets from America using 100year old hardwood trees.
It`s all Boxxock`s to get the money out of your wallets.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

I have a mobility scooter and it's scary when away from home with the battery charge indicator showing nearly empty so dread to think what it would be like in an electric car in similar circumstances.
The other day I was talking to a NHS delivery driver in a Nissan E-NV200 and he said it was great for local running around however not viable for longer distances as max range was around 100 miles. That range was significantly reduced when heater was used.
Quick release battery packs so you can just pull in and exchange for a fully charged set sounds like a good idea - until pond life realise they are valueable so you might come out of the house in the morning to find somebody had nicked your battery pack overnight just like catalytic converters were a few years ago
What about when batteries age and capacity reduced ? Replacements battery packs aren't cheap and then there will be the problem of recycling.
We have to start somewhere but I feel as if electric vehicles are being pushed too fast and the potential knock on effects, like simply transfering the negative emissions of an IC engine to the power station, have been brushed aside.

 

[rtbcomp]

...
What about when batteries age and capacity reduced ? Replacements battery packs aren't cheap and then there will be the problem of recycling.
...

There's a firm mentioned in the Fullychargedshow channel I mentioned earlier, they take used EV batteries, test them and put them in battery banks for use in buildings. Other battery technologies are on the way, again look at Fullychargedshow.

,,,
The other day I was talking to a NHS delivery driver in a Nissan E-NV200 and he said it was great for local running around however not viable for longer distances as max range was around 100 miles. That range was significantly reduced when heater was used.
....

The current range of BEVs have twice that range.

...
We have to start somewhere but I feel as if electric vehicles are being pushed too fast and the potential knock on effects, like simply transfering the negative emissions of an IC engine to the power station, have been brushed aside.

Possibly true, but there is renewable electricity in the mix and it's a lot easier to remove pollutants from stationary generating plant than it is from vehicles. Also there is no concentrated pollution in cities, which IME is the worst kind.

 

[Burdekin]

Watched the movie First Man which I really enjoyed but there was one bit that made me stop and think, it was only 58 years before the first man in space and the first powered flight. The industrial revolution changed how we live today but it also meant cities became almost unliveable. The great London smog of 1952 killed 4000 folk in a week and forced policymakers to act with the clean air acts. We now use over 13billion litres of oil every day, so cities are heavily polluted and we are polluting the planet. Now I’m no Greeny but I do think we can’t keep using more and more oil, coal and gas and everything will be rosey, for two main reasons; we will run out eventually so we should preserve what we have for future generations as well and not just think of ourselves and we are changing the environment with the quantity of greenhouse gases. I would like to think if we can put a man into space in such a short time we can come up with other cleaner and viable forms of energy. It took government policy to change things for the better in 1952 and I have no doubt that is what it will take that again, until then most folk won’t change their ways.

 

[fizzy]

Gather you've never driven a decent one then,? Maximum torque at 0rpm means acceleration from standing can be amazing. A 288hp Tesla does 0 to 60 in 3.7secs, what would a equivalent petrol engine be able to do? I use to like the noise of a engine, but now I'd much prefer a quiet cabin and listen to some decent music or have a conversation etc.

Being a bit of a hypocrite here considering my youth but folk who have noisy cars and bikes in town are just pests and annoying. Cutting down on noise and air pollution in populated areas will be a godsend, I know others don't care about this but I don't care they don't care and is my opinion. :-)

A mate of mine has a BMW 3 series hybrid. He has always been a diesel fan but loves the new BMW. Can't remember which model he said it was. Works for him as he has a 10 mile drive to work and charges it there. One thing he is concerned about - and so would I be - is that the car weighs 1700kg - oh yes it does 0-60 in under 8 seconds but how much further does it take to stop? 205 tyres v 245 on my insignia and the same weight. Those bits of rubber are all there are between life and death. There is no way it can stop as quickly in an emergency - and no amount of weight balance or other such arguments will change that. It is also a very hard compound to reduce rolling resistance as much as possible.

 

[Bullet2012]

BBC article about Geneva motor show.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47404881

 

[fizzy]

Watched the movie First Man which I really enjoyed but there was one bit that made me stop and think, it was only 58 years before the first man in space and the first powered flight. The industrial revolution changed how we live today but it also meant cities became almost unliveable. The great London smog of 1952 killed 4000 folk in a week and forced policymakers to act with the clean air acts. We now use over 13billion litres of oil every day, so cities are heavily polluted and we are polluting the planet. Now I’m no Greeny but I do think we can’t keep using more and more oil, coal and gas and everything will be rosey, for two main reasons; we will run out eventually so we should preserve what we have for future generations as well and not just think of ourselves and we are changing the environment with the quantity of greenhouse gases. I would like to think if we can put a man into space in such a short time we can come up with other cleaner and viable forms of energy. It took government policy to change things for the better in 1952 and I have no doubt that is what it will take that again, until then most folk won’t change their ways.

There is already a clean form of power. It came out in the 50s. No CO2 - no NOX - and cheap!
Sadly the Greens have destroyed it.
There is only 1 major country in the World that meets it's CO2 targets - France.



Sadly wind and solar will never work because they are too much on or off. There is NO reliable storage and batteries haven't improved much since the 1880s. Nuclear subs and forklifts along with many other things still use lead acid. Batteries are not like computers where they keep improving in massive leaps.

Hopefully we will eventually crack Fusion and the Greens will shut up.

As you can see it is very windy at the moment - Britain is still using fossil fuel to generate 42% of our leccy. France is only using 7% fossil fuel. Germany and many other countries are far worse than Britain - CO2 emissions have actually gone up despite £3 trillion being spent on so called renewables.

 

[Burdekin]

A mate of mine has a BMW 3 series hybrid. He has always been a diesel fan but loves the new BMW. Can't remember which model he said it was. Works for him as he has a 10 mile drive to work and charges it there. One thing he is concerned about - and so would I be - is that the car weighs 1700kg - oh yes it does 0-60 in under 8 seconds but how much further does it take to stop? 205 tyres v 245 on my insignia and the same weight. Those bits of rubber are all there are between life and death. There is no way it can stop as quickly in an emergency - and no amount of weight balance or other such arguments will change that. It is also a very hard compound to reduce rolling resistance as much as possible.

Weighs the same as the standard 3 series then.

 

[fizzy]

Weighs the same as the standard 3 series then.

Possibly but the 3 series he had before was on much wider tyres. it is the law of physics - what happens in an emergency stop?
I said to him ahh well at least the skinny tyres will be great in rain or snow - he said no chance it is worse because the tyres are so hard.

 

[Burdekin]

There is already a clean form of power. It came out in the 50s. No CO2 - no NOX - and cheap!
Sadly the Greens have destroyed it.
There is only 1 major country in the World that meets it's CO2 targets - France.



Sadly wind and solar will never work because they are too much on or off. There is NO reliable storage and batteries haven't improved much since the 1880s. Nuclear subs and forklifts along with many other things still use lead acid. Batteries are not like computers where they keep improving in massive leaps.

Hopefully we will eventually crack Fusion and the Greens will shut up.

View attachment 170696 View attachment 170697

As you can see it is very windy at the moment - Britain is still using fossil fuel to generate 42% of our leccy. France is only using 7% fossil fuel. Germany and many other countries are far worse than Britain - CO2 emissions have actually gone up despite £3 trillion being spent on so called renewables.

Hence my last sentence that you quoted. No point arguing, if you think we can keep consuming the way we are then that is your point of view, fine by me. I have redneck mates where I come from that claim global warming is a hoax, I refuse to argue with them as well because it’s pointless. It’s just history repeating itself and was only 70 years ago.

 

[Burdekin]

Possibly but the 3 series he had before was on much wider tyres. it is the law of physics - what happens in an emergency stop?
I said to him ahh well at least the skinny tyres will be great in rain or snow - he said no chance it is worse because the tyres are so hard.

Which law are you referring too? What difference do you think it makes in mitres to the stopping distance?

 

[R-D-R]

One bad thing about our I3 is the skinny tyres ( they are too skinny) I would rather loose some range and have wider ones on it. Summer driving is like its on rails it feels like a scaletrix and stops really well too but in winter you MUST use winter tyres to give yourself half a chance - the weight of it makes stopping on slush and ice very dicey without them. You can't beat physics.

Some really good discussion above, personally and like others I'm on the fence about the Green credentials promoted of EV purely because of the Power generation and battery manufacturing. The thing I like about electric cars is it leaves the problem of air pollution back at source rather than spewing it out on the roads especially in cities. I would like to see EV taxed much more (and would gladly pay it) to have more spend on power generation pollution improvements and greener/ethical battery production. I went for the I3 for mrs RDR after seeing how they manufacture it in a dedicated wind powered carbon neutral factory which ticked my box as a starter for ten (there's some really good videos following the production line on Youtube). The batteries have a guaranteed second life to help offset the impacts of their manufacture and maximise their useful life too but I still look forward to seeing advancements in battery tech. They also have an excellent recycling scheme for the cars end of life, it built to be highly recyclable.

 

[rtbcomp]

...There is NO reliable storage and batteries haven't improved much since the 1880s. Nuclear subs and forklifts along with many other things still use lead acid. Batteries are not like computers where they keep improving in massive leaps.

...

Google "Battery Development" https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=battery+development&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_battery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_commercial_battery_types

Lead Acid (1881) 30-40 watt-hrs/Kg 60-75 watt-hrs/litre
Lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (2008) 205 watt-hrs/Kg 580 watt-hrs/litre

 

[fizzy]

Hence my last sentence that you quoted. No point arguing, if you think we can keep consuming the way we are then that is your point of view, fine by me. I have redneck mates where I come from that claim global warming is a hoax, I refuse to argue with them as well because it’s pointless. It’s just history repeating itself and was only 70 years ago.

No not arguing - agree with most of what you say!
Only problem is if Britain vanished off the face of the Earth tomorrow the global emissions would barely change - our footprint is tiny.

 

[fizzy]

Google "Battery Development" https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=battery+development&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_battery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_commercial_battery_types

Lead Acid (1881) 30-40 watt-hrs/Kg 60-75 watt-hrs/litre
Lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (2008) 205 watt-hrs/Kg 580 watt-hrs/litre

Maths a bit wrong there?
Lead acid divide 75 by 40 you get 1.875
Lithium divide 580 by 205 you get 2.82

so Lithium become 384 watts per litre.

Taking cost out of the equation Lithium is obviously better but not massively so. Most things have improved a lot more after 100 years of development. The chemistry is against us sadly. If you want mass storage still lead acid is the king. If you worry about the weight then obviously you go for Lithium batteries.
I truly wish there were the huge improvements.
How many people are using a Lithium battery to start their car?

 

[rtbcomp]

Maths a bit wrong there?
Lead acid divide 75 by 40 you get 1.875
Lithium divide 580 by 205 you get 2.82

so Lithium become 384 watts per litre.

...
How many people are using a Lithium battery to start their car?

Not quite sure what you're getting at with the maths. The two sets of figures weight & volume don't have a relationship between the two different types because of the different densities of the materials used.

You go for lithium because you can put more watt-hrs into the same space than lead-acid. It's the space that matters.

AFAIK nobody uses lithium to start a car - so what?

EDIT with lithium you get more energy in less weight AND less volume.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

All a bit confusing really...."energy density" seems to be measured as energy per Kg and per L!

Personally I'm guessing most of us care more about the volume the batteries occupy?

All I know is I used to have NiCad Dewalt drills...then I got the lithium ones and they knocked the socks off the old ones and are actually about the same size of battery!